Do you have any historical figures who fascinate you?

[WilburIsSomePig]

Just watched a programme about Mary Queen of Scots. Well she had a real shady taste in men and made some rubbish decisions but my god the woman really did have a shite time of it. I have always been a bit obsessed with her so are there any historical figures that really capture your thoughts?

Another Irish history teacher.

Am fascinated by Collins and de Valera too and also Parnell.

Also the Kennedys, Eleanor of Aquitane, Isabella of Spain and Catherine de Medici.

Anne Boleyn, I was intrigued to find out that she was a direct descendant of Edward I, through her grandmother Margaret Butler, and was a 7th cousin of Henry VIII. In fact Henry was related of all 6 of his wives, from 3rd cousins down to 9th cousins, but I suppose the gene pool was a lot smaller in those days.

I don't think it's just that the gene pool was smaller, but it was the done thing for noble families to intermarry and appoint one another as wards and ladies in waiting and what not.

Charles and Diana were something like 15th cousins.

The Habsburgs intermarried so much eventually they had genetic abnormalities. By contrast Henry's wives were positively exotic in contrast in terms of how closely they were related.

You don't have to go back that far to find all sorts of interesting relations. David Cameron is Kim Kardashian's 13th cousin and Camilla Parker-Bowles are distant cousins.

And yes the gene pool was much smaller. The population was 3 million rather than England's 53 million today so less than 6% of the current gene pool. Factor in that the population was much, much less mobile or able to communicate well over distance and it shrinks even further.

Considering most King's before him only married other Royals whose families also intermarried Henry's marriages had the potential to breathe comparative genetic diversity into his line. It's just unfortunate that line died out! The Stuart's by contrast were much more inbred.

Anne of Cleves.
Often overlooked after her short marriage to Henry VIII.
Sometimes portrayed as a plain naive woman but I think she must have had great common sense to survive marriage to the king, come out of it with several properties, an allowance and to be referred to as the "Kings Beloved Sister" which gave her precedent over every other woman in the land bar the kings wife and daughters.

Tudors, Richard III and Marie Antoinette. One of the best books I've ever read was about her and the fate of her children post revolution.

Mozart

Eamon De Valera is an intriguing character and I'm still not sure what to make of him. I know what I make of him, Alec but I'm probably prejudiced and unfair.

Avonmore I forgot about Parnell. Years ago there was a series on telly called Private Affairs dealing with the love lives of various political figures. Mussolini and Clara Petacci featured in one episode but I can't recall any of the others except for Parnell / O'Shea. That was what first got me interested me in Parnell.

I'd love to see that episode again, although I dare say it would look very dated and stagey these days, but have never had the chance.

Lady Margaret Beaufort (founded TWO Cambridge colleges)

Moshoeshoe I, the first king of Lesotho (who pointed out the idiocy of racism with reference to his cattle: God makes them different colours, but are they not all cattle? Do they not all belong to the same herd?)

Matthew Hopkins, Witchfinder General (how did he end up so twisted: v. interesting period of history in general)

Miriam Haskell - not a historical figure, but she was an amazing woman

Andrewofgg yes Juana's grandmother was said to be mad - she certainly had some form of dementia.

Another person who fascinates me is Prince Frederick, who was hated by his parents George II and Caroline. When his wife became pregnant, his mother was convinced that it was all a lie and they insisted on being present at the birth in case they secretly smuggled a baby in! When his wife went into labour, Prince Frederick managed to get her out of the palace and this poor woman had to sit in a coach whilst he took her to a different palace to give birth. She gave birth to a girl, which they were suspicious about but then thought he probably wouldn't bother faking the birth of a princess! Despite that, when Caroline became ill he was banned from seeing her and didn't attend her funeral. The hatred they had for their son is really quite sad.

I find the Tudor period fascinating - the story of Henry VIII and his wives, and his children. I enjoy reading everything, from serious, academic histories of the time, to really frivolous fiction.

Andrea Palladio

Robert Adam

Handel

Prophet Mohammed.

I would rather like to shag Charles II. I gather he was quite good in bed. Then after I had recovered from that, I rather fancy a tour around Oxford and London with Sir Robert Taylor, the Palladian architect, followed by a cooking session with Escoffier, a day with Balanciaga playing with fabrics, and I'd like to run my hands over Nureyev's entire body just for the hell of it.

Artemisia I and Artemisia II.

Gertrude Bell

Freya Stark

Alfred the Great. Just wow. Not only a fighter but visionary.

TE Lawrence. What a complex, able man.

Thanks AlecTrevelyan006 for reminding me of Erskine Childers.

Any of the Pre-raphaelite artists
William Morris
Arthur Lasenby Liberty
John Ruskin (what a weird but very interesting man!)
Oscar Wilde
Lady Jane Grey
The Egyptian Pharoahs & Nefertiti
Marie Antoinette
John Wilmot, Lord Rochester

Also have an obsessive fascination with the Titanic, which frankly gives me the creeps......

Dorothy Parker.

Catherine the great.

*Anne of Cleves"

Often overlooked after her short marriage to Henry VIII. Sometimes portrayed as a plain naive woman but I think she must have had great common sense to survive marriage to the king, come out of it with several properties, an allowance and to be referred to as the "Kings Beloved Sister" which gave her precedent over every other woman in the land bar the kings wife and daughters.

Totally agree about Anne of Cleves.

She would most likely have made Henry the perfect wife in terms of intellect, companionship and common interest, but because she didn't conform to his ideas of 'beauty' ( especially ironic mas by the time Anne came on the scene Henry himself was no oil painting - obese and suffering with health problems related to his lifestyle) she was discarded, and Thomas Cromwell lost his head .. something Henry also came to regret.

Anne of Cleves was a remarkably pragmatic, clear thinking woman with a well honed survival instinct .... and survive and thrive she did, winning admiration and accolade in the process.

Boffin

You've clearly given this some thought...

Anne of Cleves certainly played her hand well, very astute woman, she didn't want to return to her homeland and her brother. The deal she made gave her independence, security, money, property and status, quite a coup considering the fate of Henry's other wives, I also read in one of the many books about his wives that Anne of Cleves was well thought of by the people of England.

Pandora that sounds really brutal about Prince Frederick, I shall have to read up on that - you've piqued my interest.

I found the book about Vera Atkins of the SOE fascinating.

Afternoon all,

We're going to be moving this thread over to our History Club topic now, so it can be enjoyed for generations to come!

Thanks!