Found my grandad's medal from world war 1.

[charlietangoteakettlebarbeque]

Hello

we found his medal from world war 1. It says the following:

4870
Pte d white
R. Muns. Fusi

he was from Ireland. I know that Fusi is short for fusilier (I think)

I've Googled everything that's on the medal but nothing is coming up

I told my irish family I would investigate, find out what it was he did in the war etc. He did survive, albeit less one eye, but that's all I know.

I'm at a loss as to where to go from here!

Can anyone shed any light or help at all? Here are pics

SurelyYoureJokingMrFeynman, dubdurbs link is a little confusing... if you read it, it also says that later battalions started numbering from 1914. So it would depend on which battalion he was in. In theory there could be several men from the same regiment with the same service number but in different battalions.

The transcription I got was from findmypast - they don't have the documents scanned there. The record is also on ancestry though, with the actual document, but I don't have access to view it (I may be able to log on at my mum's later and check).

Oh Helga, I've just clocked the date of his death - 27 August 1914. One of the first, and the retreat from Mons.

You've probably got a lot more info in your newspaper article, but here's the Commonwealth War Graves Commission info about the cemetery, that tells how it came to be created. The men were buried in the apple orchard were they died, holding up the German advance.

Helga, Jeremiah was in the 2nd Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers.

Place of birth and residence TRALEE, CO. KERRY.

Given he was killed so early in 1914, he must have been a professional solider enlisted before the war.

The early movements of the 2nd are recorded as follows:
August 1914 : at Aldershot. Part of 1st (Guards) Brigade in 1st Division.
14 August 1914 : landed at Le Havre.
14 September 1914 : after suffering heavy casualties at Etreux, left Division and became Army Troops.

I think you might be particularly interested in this:
On the 27th of August, 1914, the 2nd Battalion of the Royal Munster Fusiliers were cut off and surrounded by the Germans at Etreux, in France, during the Retreat from Mons. In total, 95 Munsters were either killed in action or died of wounds, with some 450 taken taken Prisoner.

A longer account is here:
www.britishbattles.com/firstww/battle-of-etreux.htm

I suspect this is taken from the official war diary of the battalion given the detail.

I'm going to be daring and attempt my first picture upload...

There was no info on the back of the medal card.

I would say this card was created when the 1914-15 star was awarded (name etc all written in the same hand in red).

Then at least two more hands in blue have added stuff, including the "SWB List 1/198". As the awarding of the SWB must substantially predate the post-war stamp listing "Victory, British, Star", there could well be another, older card somewhere for the same man. Which would explain the discrepancies.

redtoothbrush thank you so much. Him being enlisted before 1914 would explain why he's not on the 1911 cencus.

I hate asking more but is there any info on what medal he would have received?

For Helga.

Yes there is a medal card. He got a 1914 Star, British and Victory medal which were the standard.

The article above is also worth reading with regard to medals as it says no special medals for bravery were given to the battalion following Etreux as so many were killed and didn't live to recommend awards which in itself is awful.

Sorry, missed your comment above, Red. Yes, that should have said Donat White's service number could put his enlistment between 1892 and 93. As you say, service numbers are unreliable

And CharlieTango, yes, as Red says, Donat's wife's name and any details could be very useful.

Another place to look is in the local papers of the time, either online at the British Newspaper Archive or in a local library.

I haven't found anything at the BNA using Search, but if you have a narrow date window and enough patience, you can browse the casualty lists. The areas I've been researching I find the local papers punctilious about local men - killed, wounded, missing, previously missing now known killed, prisoner, etc - and they often add family details. The national papers also print the casualty lists.

Be warned it's pretty grim reading though. I've been in tears every day doing my family recently.

just to add - you can have a month's access to Findmypast for £1 at the moment, offer code is RELATIVES. Don't forget to untick the auto-renew box!

hello everyone

quick update - I have bought the National Archives for 8 Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers and downloaded it. It looks absolutely fascinating. Its basically a diary of daily life in the trenches. I will read it this weekend. Some of it is very difficult to read but I will hopefully decipher the majority of what was written.

I just want you to know that I am still reading your posts but I'm at work so can't post back or really read them properly. Please keep posting! I will re-read everything tonight!

and thank you all again

For any photos, especially of him in uniform, you would probably be best off going through his regimental association. They are (ime) always happy to help you research, especially this year.

CaptChaos - when you say I should contact his regimental association - what do you mean exactly and how would I go about this?

That is awesome. Be sure to look after that. That needs to be passed down from generation to generation x

Hello all,

I have just read through the thread again, it really is awesome. Been doing a bit of reading, and clicking on links. The ancestry site I found difficult to navigate for some reason it keeps directing me to the payment page, when all I want is the free trial thing. I created a family tree but all the hints do not match. I am stumped with it!

I emailed my aunty and she thinks the name of Donat White's wife was Winifred Sheedy. I really hope scrap of info this can shed some more light on this fascinating story. I am not sure what to do with the info though - can anyone help?

I am rubbish with this type of thing. Everything seems so confused.

What I would like to know is, where he was laid to rest, whether the other medals are still around (or melted down for scrap as PP suggested - how utterly sad if that is the case), and any other cool stuff about my great grandfather.

Helga - how sad that he died so soon. I clicked on his gravestone and felt very sad

OK, the only Winifred Sheedy in the 1911 Ireland census is living in Scarriff, Co. Clare: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Scarriff/Scarriff_Town/369746/

She's born 1887 Co Clare. (I haven't got her in the 1901 census, but could keep looking.)

AND. There's a Winifred Sheedy marries in 1913 in Scarriff:

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958 about Winifred Sheedy
Name: Winifred Sheedy
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1913
Registration district: Scarriff
Volume: 4
Page Number: 169
FHL Film Number: 101262
Records on Page:
Name
Winifred Sheedy
John Quigley
Denis White
Mary Devany
John Quigley

The record doesn't state who she marries, just what names appear on the page. Each page contains two marriages, so the names must pair up one way or the other.

"Denis" White is looking very plausible indeed - a typo or alternative name?

Oh my god that's her!! My great aunt lived in scarriff! ! I got tingles down my spine reading that

I'm on the move now on my phone so can't post properly give me a min

Is there an ancestry page offering you a free trial? If not, I'm not sure how you'll get it.

If there is, you have to give it your credit card no. You must then cancel the subscription before the trial expires, or it will charge you.

The free trial subscription will continue for the set period, even though you've cancelled. So you might as well cancel immediately.

Ah it was the credit card thing that stumped me. I don't like doing that as I usually forget I've done it and then get stung for it a month later!

Denis white, that could be him! An alias or a typo? Hmm interesting. Kinda hoping it's an alias, makes for a better story!

Keep feeding info back to old rellies - IME it prompts them to remember more or to come out with important details you've just wasted days looking for.

ha ha ha yeah I will do!

Ok, I THINK I may have got something in a round about way as I can't view some of this.

There is a private family tree on ancestry which isn't publicly viewable but I can see a Winifred Sheedy AND a Donat/Denis White on it.

Winifred has the dates 1884-1957 by her name and Donat/Denis has 1885-1967 by his. If you use information that someone else has posted on ancestry, its always wise to use caution but in this particular case it does look promising, especially seeing as I think I can see something else that backs this up. I can not find corresponding birth/baptisms/deaths for this.

There does appear that there was a marriage in 1913 in Scarriff, Ireland for a Winifred Sheedy to a Denis White. (Its a transcription that gives a couple of names, but both come up together)

Promisingly, the 1911 census shows a Denis White aged 28 living in Scarriff too. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Scarriff/Scarriff_Town/369760/ I know its slightly out for age, but not much and this isn't that uncommon. And in fact what appears to be the same family appears in 1901, but Denis White is 16 in this (which would be the correct age for those dates given above)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Clare/Scariff/_Scariff_Village__Scariff_Street/1086064/

I can also find Winifred there in 1911.

I wonder, if he uses the name Donat in 1915/1916 because of the Irish politics of the time....

I've now been able to view the actual Silver War Badge Record itself and it was was wrongly transcribed. It does say his service number was 8/4780 not 8/1970 which is brilliant as I think that confirms it as him and the 8/ confirms him as being in the 8th Battalion which was what I originally thought.

wowsers

I am trying to compute all this information.

Thank you so so so much everyone for contributing to this mad journey. I need to really sit down with my mum and go through everything. Info overload!! I need to simplify everything and piece it all together as its all jumbled in my head at the moment

to all of you!!

Red, we are cross-posting like good'uns here!