Historical mistakes in books and movies

[Penelope1980]

Hello! I thought this would be a good place to ask you what your top pet peeves are in historical books and movies as, as history lover, it is something which interests me. Do you mind when things aren't right? Or does it make you seethe? What specifically do you hate the most? Are you ever forgiving of mistakes, modern language, modern haircuts etc? Or, are you usually so busy enjoying the book or movie to notice?

I find I don't mind a good historical bodice-ripper as can usually get carried away in the story, or most movies set in the past, but am really intolerant of the following:

• when a true historical character is painted a villain when there is no proof that they were. Case that springs to mind is Murdoch in the movie Titanic, who is painted a bad guy with no real proof that he was.

• When in books set hundred of years ago all the 'good' characters have modern values (especially regarding gender, race and class) and the 'bad' characters have the values of the time. I find this presentism irritating, and a bit condescending.

Interested in your thoughts ...

no-one in the society (AFAWK) had a clue about such-and-such, but you create Amazing Wise Character X, who brings with him/her profound knowledge from the future

Agreed - I hate that more than anything. It's so patronising. Especially when it's ideas that didn't exist yet.

yes, I saw something last week that said that in the mediaeval period, more women could read and write than men, even working class, and they all passed their skills on to the children.
and that a lot of them used their skills to interpret the bible, so were very knowledgeable wrt religion.

Ooh, can I pester you for the reference for that?

Not a movie, but Andrew Marr's history thing on TV - we gritted our teeth and sat through the first one but found it really irritating. Over dramatised (what was that rubbish about crossing that stone bridge thing in the out of Africa bit ?!).

I thought the whole program was riddled with inaccuracies and misunderstandings. Grrr.

i don't know - it might have been Bettany Hughes, but i can't remember!

Ah, no worries, will have a browse at BH. Thank you!

Throckenholt, the bit that annoyed me in the Andrew Marr thing was Ancient Woman giving birth on her back.

I watched RHPOT the other day. Morgan Freeman says that her baby hasn turned, and can't be born without help. (Transverse lie?) He asks for a needle and thread.
He also says he has only seen it done on horses. It's got go be either a cesarean, or he stuck his hand in and turned the baby manually.

TunipTheVegemal

there were so many bits like that (I winced at that too) - things for which there was no evidence, and totally over dramatised. Won't be watching any more. Sad though - I expected much better than that.

Did women in "the old days" shave/pluck the hair from their armpits and have nicely trimmed bikini lines? Or is that Hollywood?

I know there was a fashion around the time of Elizabeth I for shaving the hairline to enhance a high forehead - never seen that replicated in a costume drama.

There is no reason to believe they did.

Ancient roman women did I think... I would imagine only the upper class though.

And some Asian cultures did

But for the vast majority of history, no... Women were hairy.

Yes, that's true, Roman men as well as women did a lot of plucking.

A quick google adds ancient Greece and Egypt to that list.

i think in the west, it was (in recent history anyway) only done from the 1920s when flappers wore dresses that were short and showed their armpits.

no need before then, but i bet there were places where it happened - a fetish of the king, like Footbinding in china.

I have a particular loathing for historical novels in which witches are burnt or tortured in England. NEITHER happened. Also novels in which real witch names are used and said witch is a Mary Sue of a midwife herbalist, 30 years old and a raving beauty, when Bad Priests come to catch. her. It Never Happened ANYWHERE.

Also hate thick description of bad smells in past....

And food in the past - almost always wrong....

Agree re witches.
I also hate it when the rest of the novel is believable but the witch has actual supernatural powers.

What do you mean by 'thick description of bad smells'?

Yes, I'm with you on the witches. Though, technically witchcraft is a sin against the first commandment IIRC, and the punishment for heresy (which is another form of sin against the first commandment) was burning. So I suppose it's not impossible to imagine a witch being burned.

The pendle witches have the most fantastic names. I can see why they'd want to use those names. Not so much the 'herbal' crap.

I've got to admit, I was disappointed by the Cynthia Harnett book where she makes a year written in Arabic numerals integral to the plot then explains in her postscript that it's impossible as no-one would have used Arabic numerals.

It seems kinda cheeky to excuse your mistake like that.

Btw, I just remembered a goodie. Charles Causley (whom I do love) wrote a poem about Katharine of Aragon in which he claims she died aged 24. He misunderstood her tombstone, which says she was queen for 24 years. Whoops.

The entire "Mummy" films. They made me growl a little bit. DP occasionally suggests we watch them just to wind me up.

GRRRR.

It probably doesn't count and its a shit film anyway, but it pisses me off when they say Cary Grant was from Surrey in The Holiday. I always assumed it was a caesarean in RHPOT, never thought of it being an episiotomy.

exactly, JumpingJetFlash. Dover to Hadrians wall in just a few hours on foot. Amazing.

In the Sound of Music there is a van with "Israel" on it. Israel wasn't a state at the start of WW2

Witches, who could be women, men(warlocks) or children were hanged in this country. I live in witch country, Mistley/Manningtree. Matthew Hopkins lived just down the road. Im witch terms, Manningtree is very famous, which is amusing, considering that most of the witches that Matthew Hopkins arrested, around here, were actually aquitted!

Although Matthew Hopkins is notorious for torturing witches. He used to walk them for days, deprive them of sleep, and when he had discovered their witches marks, would stab the mark with a retractable pin, to prove that witches marks feel no pain! We have a ducking pond here as well.