History on TV

[MadBusLady]

Sooo, this comes off the back of this thread about Richard III and then this thread about MN History Club.

I thought it might be good to have a big general thread about any history on TV we are watching/looking forward to/really enjoyed in the past. And I see we are already tackling some of the major themes such as the rugged cheekbones and leather jackets of the presenters on the other thread.

We're currently watching Neil Oliver's Vikings series, which is ace - what I really like about it is he starts out in the first programme in the Scandinavian bronze age/iron age, and showed where the Vikings had come from as a culture.

Phill on TT, why the long nails and boak at the sweaty hat.

There are lots of pros and cons to TT, but they do at least use proper archaeologists. Most work for the more traditional units outside the show, and I think a lot (if not all?) of the post excavation is done by one of the big firms.

I think someone somewhere probably made it illegal for Phil to drop the hat and get a haircut..

The excavators are really good. I suppose what I don't like is the artificiality of the rushed excavation, like something they've chosen to do for TV is somehow akin to rescue archaeology.

And what really hate is when they bring on a couple of archaeo-farts and set them up for a faux debate about a non-problem that is faintly embarrassing to have resurrected again.

A bit like having a programme about particle physics and making David Icke debate with the Pope about the nature of the ether whilst pretending they only had three days to save the world. Well ok it's actually nothing like that but it annoys me.

I would love to see David Icke debate with the Pope. About anything, really, but the nature of the ether while pretending they had three days to save the world - that would be a blockbuster.

I know how to have fun, me.

Oo I dunno, I've been on plenty of sites where the developers have demanded we finish in three days.. we just told them to eff off, and didn't have Tony and Phil to extoll the virtues of a bit of crumbly pot to further our cause ;)

They film everything about five times from different angles and then spend half the time trying to work out how to inject the maximum sense of [false] jeopardy.

like i said the Time Team effect, i forget how many sites i've been on where people have said (both in jest and seriously) "Time Team do it in three days, how come you need x weeks?"

@Linerunner, you're quite right about 'ritual' and it is a bit of a running joke i suppose, maybe in part due to the 'Time Team' effect that non-archaeologists (& particularly clients) expect results/conclusions right there and then.

Personally, and in this context, i don?t really have a problem with the use of ritual, as it simply (imho) becomes a sort of short hand for saying 'there's more to this (feature) than meets the eye'; the excavated remains represent something more (perhaps conceptual practices) than a purely functional interpretation can support.

And surely you can't be serious about Guy De La Bedoyere

and how many ask where the series of small walls are!

I like the bit on Guy de la Bedoyere's website where he expresses restrained concern about being berated by adult students for not answering their questions quickly enough!

"I?m sorry to say that, regrettably, in a few instances one or two adult students have taken exception to the idea that I?m not available at their beck and call and subjected me to the most extraordinary tirades. One actually wrote to complain that this website did not have a page devoted to her specific essay title, though that was by no means the rudest!"

Bless. Brings back memories of my own. We should get Guy on MN for a proper rant and we can all join in.

Also he is now a full-time teacher. A redemption of a sorts.

Years ago i was digging in the middle of Newcastle, and overlying the (lovely) medieval layers were the big, fat, stone walls of a 19th century lead factory. Bloke comes up to the herris fencing and shouts "is it roman?", i go over and explain it is in fact the lead factory. He replies "no those stone walls must be a Roman Temple". I patiently explain (at some length) the stratigraphy etc. and how it can't possibly be earlier than the layers underneath. "no" says he, "it's a temple". "yes" i reply, "You're right, it's a Roman Temple", and he walks off smiling...

Was that the Newgate area?

nearer to St James Park

I lived near there.

What were we talking about?!

I'm looking forwards to the new series on servants tomorrow night. Should dispel a few downton myths.

I think the Farm series (Victorian, Green Valley, Edwardian and now Wartime) are all quite good - and very digestible for children.

Ooh, what channel was the servants thing on freerange? My great grandmother was a servant and had some fantastic stories.

Madbus

It's on bbc2 at 9pm.

Watched Servants last night.

Absolutely watchable.

For thoseinterested in domestic service (history of) I have a fab reading list from Birkbeck.

Yis, it was great! Thanks for the recommend - missed the first 15 mins, I'm going to catch up with that later.

I thought it was interesting that she concentrated on the servants of the professional classes (doctors, lawyers etc). I know from census records that one or two of my ancestors had servants living in and they were only tradesmen and artisans. I presume the "mistress" would have been more hands-on in those households, and the servant more like we'd think of as a modern au pair. Certainly can't imagine any of my ancestors sitting in drawing rooms!

I was about to recommend the servants thing! I watched it earlier while ironing, and really enjoyed it.

Madbuslady - I think she put it that the mistresses were more hands on in terms of planning, since there was no housekeeper. She showed one mistresses book which had an almost minute by minute breakdown of what the servant would be doing. It struck me as the big house servants at least having a community ad allocated tasks whereas a one household servant was responsible for almost everything, sleeping in the kitchen etc.

This is such a ridiculous thing, but I was very excited: I watched the last of the Vikings programmes the other day, and there's someone on there who grew up in my village and went to my primary school!

Maybe there was something in the water ...

LDR, any chance you could FB them as see if they have Neil Oliver's number??

Is Neil Oliver dishy?

I always thought Michael Wood was dishy.