Do you think ‘take what you enjoy doing’ as a degree is good advice?

[Timetakesacigarette]

At school, dd was encouraged to take what she enjoyed and is subsequently part way through a Chemistry degree at a very good uni (but not Oxbridge). She’s struggling to get internships/work experience but her friends who took maths/computer science or finance are faring better (a lot didn’t get the top grades she achieved). She could have taken medicine (but her heart wasn’t in it).
I feel guilty as I wasn’t clued up about Stem and was happy to go along with what she/the school wanted. My friend pushed her son to do maths (even though he wasn’t keen) and he’s is now a high flyer earning very well.

I’m hoping it all pans out in the end but the grad market seems difficult now. She will need to earn a decent amount as we can’t support her financially very well in the future.

She has a couple of friends on degree apprenticeships. They’re not enjoying it all that much but at least they’re earning well for their age and will have the experience and a degree at the end.

Also, her timings might be a bit off. Summer internships are advertised in the autumn and winter time so she might have missed the boat. This is where lots of YP go wrong, and leave it far too late.

Has she looked on the usual platforms? Linkedin, indeed, bright network and grad Cracker. She needs to use various keywords, internship, placement, industrial placement. Maybe get her to connect to figures in her industry on LinkedIn. I say this but my daughter would not have done this, instead I think she'd have rather poked her own eyes out. Have a look on WIWIKAU website. They have a job section for summer/year placements and grad roles for when the time comes. Make her aware September onwards is prime time for vacancies to be opened. She could look on company websites and register her interest so once job ops open she's on it.

Chemistry is an absolutely solid degree.

2 recent chemistry grads I know are following careers as a tax accountant and a trainee patent attorney (the latter after a masters in chemical engineering).

Keep plugging away at the applications. It is not unusual in today's graduate market for grads to apply to between 60 and 100 internships and grad roles before getting an offer.

I met a man with a chemistry degree once who worked in special effects for film sets. He remains the coolest person I have ever met 😂 you can't do that with an economics degree!

Chemistry is a good degree to take, there are lots of directions she could go in. She may need to think about doing a masters/PhD afterwards (but she should be able to find a funded one in chemistry).
For me “do what you enjoy” was good advice because I really wasn’t sure what to do as a career but have ended up in a good job after a biological Science BSc and PhD.
Young people should be thinking of future careers too though and what kind of things they could do after their degree, but not to the extent of taking a degree they hate

I think ‘do what you enjoy’ isn’t great advice because what you enjoy at 17/18 isn’t necessarily going to be what you enjoy doing 8 hours a day five days a week when you’re mid-thirties with 2 kids and childcare to organise or 60 and looking at retirement. I’ll be encouraging my kids to look into what degrees will get them jobs that any idiot with a leisure centre management degree couldn’t fall into and end up being their boss. Law, medicine, teaching, architect. And jobs that work around family commitments and pay well enough to buy a nice house and have good holidays.

Unless you want to be something like an architect or a doctor, that require effectively vocational degrees, there’s no point at all trying to second-guess what job may result from a degree. Most people I know with the best jobs have jobs they’d never possibly have guessed at, or even heard of, when they were 18. Just do what you enjoy and find worthwhile and challenging, and what will come will come.

@CatA27Many engjneers will have completed accredited chemical engineering degrees. They are not chemists as such.

@Timetakesacigarette Have she considered a masters in a slightly different area of work? I assume 4 years is an undergrad masters anyway but a friend did what we call “gas mask” technology and works for HSE. I’d look sideways and also consider volunteering - always gives skills.

She needs to consider a masters in a specific area to boost her employability.

Water / environment would be an obvious choice, but public policy with a concentration in environmental policy might be a good idea.

Other than that, pharmacy (doctorate) is a good choice and would be portable of she decided to work abroad.

id say try to keep it a usable degree, but in general yes go with your passion

I find this an incredible post. Yes. The experts are right to say that it’s better to study what you love.

Also difficult if you are not an expert in STEM to become one overnight to advise a child, but lovely to think you have the capability for that.

As a genuine adult, I suggest you let your offspring work it out for themselves, rather than worry about it. There are dozens of pathways that would fund them long term and give them happy and healthy lives. They will be the expert in knowing about them and finding them. Because they’ve got a chemistry degree and you have not.

I teach students doing finance. The ones with jobs lined up have typically used family connections to get internships early on which then lead to job offers. A lot who don't have that are struggling in the face of 500 applications with no call backs. I would not suggest finance as a good option right now!

I’m a maths graduate. I started in my finance graduate role alongside a chemistry graduate. We’re both now doing incredibly well in our careers so the degree made no difference.

My part time job and my year abroad were what made is easier to find my job though and to have examples to talk about in my interview.

I’m interviewing graduates later this month for our latest intake, and it is usually those who’ve done more than just got a degree that shine in the interviews. What extra curriculars does your daughter do?

I think it depends. A relative of mine still doing his degree was contacted via his school before he even started at uni by a finance company. They’ve offered him a summer intern during his degree and will pay him 60k and provide hotel accommodation during the summer. So finance companies are definitely still looking for bright graduates.

There’s plenty of very good employers if she has a Chemistry degree. CompSci workers are concerned about AI on their careeers. Long term I think Chem will be better.

Chemistry is stem - the “s” literally stands for science. The chemists I know from uni off the top of my head work in big 3 consulting, corporate law, accounting, data analytics, venture capital, private equity and academia / teaching. All extremely well paid (possibly bar teaching but that is are a passion/anti corporate choice.) I think she just needs interview practice..!

If 'doing what you love' is chemistry then it's very good advice imo. It's a very hard degree & it's not as though every other young person has a good chemistry degree is it? Finance and banking sectors often hire chem graduates too.

Pharmacy is a vocational degree course not a master's degree.

Pharmacology is usually a degree course. It's not pharmacy.

Industrial chemistry would be my interest as there must be all sorts of possibilities with the moving away from fossil fuels.

If you think of all the products we use that are made from fossil fuels - plastics, nylon, polyester, paints etc. All chemical-based.

Thanks all again. To confirm, it is an integrated Masters.

No! It’s advice given by unworldly school
career guidance teachers, without looking at the job market,and the the ‘likely to no longer be a job in 20 years’ data and salary.
If I had listened to that advice, I would have been a classical musician. Earning capacity is not great in classical music (unless you are with bigger orchestra in the world) and I would have had to teach to supplement my income (I’m a super musician, not a good or patient teacher).
So, as I was good at maths, I did Business and Economics, ended up in a Big4 and whilst hours were punishing, perks were good and I was able to live and save.

Yes, do something that doesn’t make you miserable but keep an eye to the future. What life would you like, what lifestyle do you wish to have and try to match those to find a suitable industry for your career.
I love my musical part of my life. Playing part time, in things I enjoy and have a bunch of friends from that world. But know it would never have truly fulfilled me.

Oh absolutely, chemistry is no doubt a good degree because you’ll be qualified for jobs that other people can’t just walk into without a qualification, what I was talking about was when people pick media studies or archeology because they’re interested in it, but it doesn’t actually qualify them for anything that someone with good connections and no degree couldn’t do.

I think your DD might need some help in interviews (as do all of us!!) but the fact that she's being interviewed is a good sign. It really is. Someone I was talking to recently said that he'd been interviewed for a lectureship at a university (so, out of over 200 applications, he was one of 5). He didn't get picked. The feedback he received was that the person they went with in the end was 20 years older with the equivalent 20 years of experience that he didn't have. It was probably unfair, but from those employers, they probably thought they got value for money! Paying someone a starter salary for 20 years of experience potentially running programmes, teaching excellence, research outputs...?

I also know many people (in their 30s upwards) who all did a degree in x but have found themselves in careers in y. I think it's about the transferable skills you learn (communication, conflict management, working in teams etc) alongside where relevant, the technical/specific skills (eg if you were a chemical analyst or if you were an economist). My close relative did a computer engineering degree back in the 2000s and has never worked in that field, choosing jobs and roles that were more aligned with his values/skillset. Another good friend did a creative degree and is now a very senior civil servant. Others I know have gone from english into marketing, sociology into banking, languages into recruitment. We even hear of medics going into tech.

I think it's only a more recent phenomenon (maybe 10-15 years) that graduates seem to have this view that to get into x career you need a degree in x (other than clear paths like medicine and the like). So I don't think it's a problem to do sociology if you think you want to go into policing for example. Or doing a chemistry degree and doing financial analyst jobs.

All the best for your child! It is very tough out there.

Retired University Lecturer here. Is your daughter using the University Careers Service to full effect? Many now have guaranteed internships and others will guarantee a study year abroad between year 3 and 4. That might be something to think about as it will give her a broader world view, cultural experiences and something great to put on her CV. Otherwise, I would agree with many others that interview technique/practice may be what is letting her down. Again, her Careers Service can help with that if she is serious about engaging with them. Lots of students don't due to apathy and they really should. At (I presume) at least 20 your daughter should start to become very proactive about her future both short i.e. next two or so years, and the longer term. Has she, for example thought about getting a job after graduation for a couple of years to figure out what she likes and then going to do a Masters/other further study in something that isn't just pure Chemistry? Neither of you should be focusing on choice of undergraduate degree at this point. It is too late to change that. Finally, a Chemistry is hard and that will be recognised in many jobs in many sectors.

@oliviaharrison073What university guarantees an internship? Everyone I know has had to apply for them like a job. Many find it a treadmill and there’s no guarantee an employer will have dc. They have lots of applicants. So which universities guarantee an internship please?

A year abroad is not guaranteed either. That can also be by competitive application and will almost certainly depend on how well you are doing in your studies. Again I don’t think it’s guaranteed at all and usually you have to apply for a course offering it not just see it as a bolt on 2 years in when you feel like it.

The best bet is to analyse why she’s not getting through interviews. Careers can help with this and dc should try and find out what is on offer.