Bath or Bristol - Maths and CS/ Maths

[hydro1]

Hi,
DC has to choose between Bath or Bristol for UCAS form and can't decide as has only visited Bath on the open day. This is for a Maths and Computer Science course. 4A* predicted grades.

Aware that Bath has the option of placements, however specifically keen to know at which university is the course better in terms on teaching etc... or any thoughts from someone who has a child studying this course/ Maths course in one of these universities?

Just trying to get an idea about the pros and cons at both universities to help make the decision.

Thanks.

They are both top 10 for comp science.

Just ensure he isn't putting all his eggs in one basket. It's really common for every A* kid to apply to the same few unis - often Oxbridge, Durham, Warwick, UCL, and one or both of Bristol or Bath. Then every year some of those youngsters get no offers.

I would ensure he has a spread that includes some other unis, if he hasn't already. Somewhere like Birmingham or Lancaster offer excellent courses in maths/comp joint honours.

As a former STEM admissions tutor in a very competitive School, I agree with @Chafing

It sounds like DC needs a solid insurance offer. I think the world of Bath for STEM but no Top 10 CS School is a reliable insurance offer. Because B’ham Maths isn’t as strong, though it is plenty strong enough, and because people persist in seeing B’ham as less desirable even though CS is absolutely top notch, B’ham is something of an exception. Lancaster is also less competitive and I think if is another good choice.

Leeds, Kings, Glasgow, possibly Manchester (depending on the offer) Nottingham, Loughborough - these are other examples of suitable insurance type places IMO, though there are many others.

Between Bath and Bristol I think Bath in general for STEM teaching.

Thanks to both your replies. DC based in London so would like to be within commutable distance to London just in case.

DC does have Birmingham on the list .....although didn't realise maths is not that strong. Did debate between Birmingham and Manchester but thought Manchester would be more competitive for maths as an insurance.

@ poetry and wine - Re Kings - for some reason it never features in the Maths subject league tables (CUG). CS does. So have always wondered why this is the case and if the Maths programme at King's is strong?

If they go to state school then many schools come under contextual offers for Bristol so would have a lower offer. Bath has different criteria for contextual but people sometimes can qualify at one and not the other. My DD qualified at Bath and not at Bristol for contextual and it made Bath relatively more attractive.

Bath is a STEM focussed university, Bristol does a wider range of subjects. Bristol is known for having a very good social life though you can get from Bath to Bristol relatively easily. From what I've seen Bath can often reject if miss your offer due to demand. Accommodation at both is pricey and can be a bit challenging if insurance choice. Both have excellent career prospects and are excellent courses, would say Bath has a slight edge but very little in it.

The only person I know that went to Bath for Maths "because they offer placements" found he had to secure the placement himself, which he couldn't, and so ended up doing 3 year course anyway.

I mention this because it's exactly why your son may make this choice - he needs to question their statement. How many got placements? How were those placements sourced? And then...is he comfortable with their answers!

Bath isn't the only Uni that does this. I know of a Biochem student who went to Sheffield for same reason. Well not the only reason but placement was a big draw. As it happened, she managed to secure one, but she did it all herself and very very few others on her course managed to find one. She even got offered a job from it - although didn't like the area so found an alternative job.

My very limited experience tells me that the placements may sort of exist but may be being oversold as opportunities. So ask the right questions!

The student always has to secure the placement - Bath offers more help than most, IMO.

OP, you are past the Oxbridge deadline but not near the general deadline - can you whizz down to Bristol at the weekend and get a feel for the place as somewhere to live/study?

B’ham has a very fine Maths programme, OP! But you are comparing it to real stars, which it isn’t. OTOH it is an absolute standout in CS, and if DS goes into employment after three or four years of study, CS is likely to be the more important and relevant part of his degree.

Although a few who love Maths do this degree to enhance employability.

Anyway, I was defo not dissing B’ham!

Am I missing something? (always possible). Did the OP state that Bath and Bristol were insurance choices? I thought she did said they were choosing between them?

My inclination for STEM is always going to be Bath.

We only inferred it, @Piggywaspushed

At this stage before offers some places can be potential first choice or potential insurance. With 4 A stars first choice might be Oxbridge or Imperial and then Bristol or Bath could be insurance though its a bit risky for non contextual offer. Or Bristol Bath could be first choice initially or if Imperial / Oxbridge don't offer. For DDs Oxford course almost 100% had Bristol or Bath as insurance (rowing and old cities).

I don’t know the CS programmes at Bath or Bristol but attended both open and offer days for maths at both unis. TBH I’d have been happy for YP to land at either, they both seemed excellent.
The biggest difference to me was the “vibe” of the two. Bristol much more urban and the campus bleeds into the city whereas Bath is up on a hill, much more traditional campus feel, away from a much smaller city. It might be helpful to try and do a dash down on the train one day, you could manage to visit both campuses and get home.

Thanks for all your replies. Very helpful. DC is state school, not a contextual offer. At the current point is just filling the 5 choices in the UCAS form first. Bath or Bristol not first choice.

Have to be honest, OP, for most students - other than Oxbridge applicants, Bath would very much be a first choice for this subject!

Yes I agree, Bath would be a top choice for this for sure. Mate of DS's went there to study maths and did marvellously well.

I went to Bristol (back when we used wax tablets instead of laptops) and it's a very different kind of place from Bath. Not a campus, uni quite spread out, halls across the city. Worth going for a day to have a look (could get a feel of both cities in one day if you got on with it). Both quite £££ for accommodation btw, if that's a factor.

Where else is he looking at? I think a lot of us have assume Oxford or Cambridge with those PGs but maybe not?

Just bumping and piggybacking on this post! How is your DS getting on @hydro1

DS has offer for Bath (Astar Astar A) and Bristol (Astar AA) for Maths (although he was expecting a contextual offer of AAB for Bristol because his college is definitely on the 2026 Aspiring list, so he is going to email them to find out what is going on there).

He liked them both when we visited but I'm conscious they are very different. The support with placements at Bath definitely appeals, and of course it is a beautiful city. He's grown up rurally, so I think anywhere bigger than a market town is going to come as a big relief to him!

On the other hand, he is very sociable, loves big nights out and music, and is definitely not sporty, so perhaps Bristol may be a better shout. If it does turn out that he should have recieved the contextual offer, then that is also a significant factor of course.

I know accommodation is expensive and can be tricky at both.

@poetryandwine , @clary I was just wondering if you or any of the other PPs had any particular insights that might help him in deciding which one to firm.

His insurance is likely to be York (ABB) which he LOVED. Otoh I'd love to encourage him to follow his heart, but on the other hand he/we will be making a significant financial investment in his degree and with the graduate job market the way it is, I can't help feeling he should be getting the best possible return on investment, which means going to the 'best' possible uni?

@bristolorbath the best uni is the one you love, surely. You have to live there for three years or more and you need to enjoy that if possible.

For maths, of those three, Bath is certainly the top choice. That offer is punchy tho – is he likely to achieve it? (obvs it may be a walk in the park for him.) I think it’s important to bear in mind that maths in particular at uni is a big big step up, and Bath (among others – but there was a thread recently about Bath) demands a lot of its maths undergraduates.

Yes (yes) any uni is asking a lot of its students, or should be. A degree should never be easy. But if you are studying Eng lit or even MFL, you can find your level a bit more easily than with maths, which is a bit more sink or swim. DS found that with A level – when he got it, it was great, but often he was sitting looking at his super maths-whizz mate who was so far ahead he was working on in the text book just for the fun. (DS got a B and never planned to do maths at uni btw – but I think the analogy is there.)

The other thing is, even if he thinks, well, I have a good insurance (ABB is I would imagine very achievable for him), it's worth looking at how that works if he needs to take it up – does he get guaranteed accommodation? Is there likely to be any choice? That can be a factor with insurance offers (and with clearing) but it varies from uni to uni.

I don’t really know about the jobs market, but I cannot imagine that Bristol vs York will make much difference there. Bath tho esp with its industry connections is winning there again.

Lastly (sorry long post!) you mention a significant investment – yes indeed uni is that for sure. But bear in mind that housing costs in Bristol and I believe Bath are very high. I mean I have heard York mentioned as ££ as well; but I personally know three YP who have been at uni in Bristol in the last three years, and they have all paid around £10k for a room in a shared house. That's £30,000+ (as the figure is going to go up over the nest couple of years for sure) you need to find (bc some of the halls in Bristol at any rate are not much cheaper) before they have eaten or got a bus or bought a pair of trainers. You may well be all over this in which case apologies, but it was just the ref to finance that made me think. Mind you, as I say, I gather York is much the same.
All the best to your DS whatever he decides.

I would just be slightly cautious of the “support with placements”. Unis are v gd at selling this idea to prospective students - and it is v useful when it comes to getting a job - but the uni support doesn’t mean they have placements on tap.

A friend’s DS did MEng at Bath and didn’t do a placement at all as he couldn’t find something suitable (& is still now unemployed having graduated last June) and another friend’s DS doing NatSci at Bath is on his placement year this year, but made 70 applications before he was successful. That was a huge drain on his time during his 2nd year.

The only person I know that did Maths at Bath because of the year placement, never got one and did 3 years not 4.

Ask for evidence of how many achieved places in the last 3 years and where!

@clary thank you so much for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply, I really appreciate it.

For maths, of those three, Bath is certainly the top choice.

That is really interesting! Going by the rankings, Bath and Bristol seem very similarly placed - what is it that sets Bath apart do you think? York is notably more middle of the table, with lower entrance requirements - do you think that is a fair reflection of their programme? What difference might this make in practice?

DS is predicted 3 A stars so the Bath offer is hopefully realistic. He is obviously very capable at Maths and has two STEM parents, but I wouldn't say he is a maths prodigy iyswim so it is difficult to know what the step up to university will be like for him. My own experience of studying maths is that it is an easy subject until it isn't, and you can hit your ceiling suddenly with very little notice.

We've looked into the accommodation situation and York is guaranteeing accomodation for both firm and insurance offer holders this year, so that's helpful. Bristol and Bath only guarantee accommodation for students who firm with them.

The accommodation costs are indeed eyewatering, although we are fortunate that we don't have to make that a deciding factor. As you say, York is also a relatively expensive city.

DS is torn because his head says Bristol or Bath, but his heart says York. He can't really articulate why, it's a gut feel thing. I've told him I'll help him work through the decision but ultimately it is 100% his choice.

@WW3 , @Guidanceplease20 this is a really important point and something I had picked up on - that lots (most?) universities talk the talk about placement years, but that there is very little support given in practice, and that many students are unsuccessful in securing them.

Because of this I was careful to ask about this explicitly at Bath, who make a particular feature of their industry links.

iirc the numbers correctly, they said that of the 220-ish maths intake each year, around 150 of these students typically elect for the placement programme. Of these, around 100 typically secure placements. Of those 50 that don't, these will range from students who didn't actually apply, those who where half hearted about it, and those who applied themselves fully but were unfortunately unsuccessful - they don't know the breakdown here, because they don't oversee the applications directly.

They were quite honest and open about it, and were quick to state that ultimately it is the student who has to make it happen, so I think this is probably a fair reflection. I do think that Bath seem to put more effort into their placement support than other unis - I think they said that the process starts in the second week of the first term in the first year, so perhaps some of their success is simply making sure that students are on it and start planning and applying early.

I live on the outskirts of Bristol and spend a lot of time in Bath, they are quite different environments so that needs to be factored in too, not just tiny percentage points in world rankings (they are both excellent). Having not attended east I would say that Bristol will suit students who like cities, dont mind it can be a bit gritty in places, its fairly cosmopolitan, good range of cheap eats, very good and varied music scene and the option also to live outside the city too in later years. Bath is super touristy, quite posh, beer is eye wateringly expensive in the city centre Wetherspoons aside, great for classical music (that’s why we are there) and outside of the pretty bits it’s a normal city but no cheaper parts really, my friends ugly 60’s build 3 bed semi is worth crazy money, just had it valued. Its a feeling I suppose and only they can decide, personally I would prefer Bristol as a youngster unless they are loaded, the students I’ve met from Bath all sound pretty well to do

@bristolorbath that's good you asked the question.

I do know a science student who went to a different university than those mentioned but, again, one that waxes lyrical about placements.

She was given a list and then had to independently get on with it. She managed to secure a placement year and was one of the very few that did. I think her Mum told me only 3 received offers! That may well have been a proud Mum being over dramatic.

I don't know if her offer company were on the Uni list or if she found them from research. She made about 100 applications. On taking the placement up she met a few other students there all from different universities.

It was an excellent choice for her in that she was also given a graduate offer - although she didn't take it up because it was rural and, after the year there, she had decided she wanted instead to be based in London with her boyfriend. That's no reflection on the company or her experience there though.

@bristolorbath there are so many different rankings tho.

For maths specifically the top four are COWI - Cambs, Oxford, Warwick, Imperial but Bath is usually right behind them.

Bristol is a great and prestigious uni in general but not specially known for maths. Back in the day Bath really offered mainly maths and engineering and those have always been its specialities. I went to Bristol myself about 100 years ago and Bath was known for maths then.

I also know at least three YP who went there for the maths course (and none at Bristol) but obvs that is total anecdata.

@bristolorbath
Did you see this recent thread? Struggling academically with uni course (maths)

Yes @senua that was the one I was thinking of as well. Some interesting points wrt maths degree.