Economics Courses at University - Application Advice

[Townline]

Would love some advice from those who have been down this road already. DD is my first to go to University and I/her father am not from UK and have limited knowledge of UK Universities.

DD is in Yr13 and has predicted grades of A star (Maths), A star (Economics) , A (History) and is hoping to get the history grade up to A star early this term. She also has an EPQ but has not yet had her final grade.

She wants to apply for Economics at Durham, Bath & Exeter. She has visited all three and really liked them in different ways. However she is really stuck for her last 2 options. She is not hugely keen on Bristol and would consider both city and campus. Would be great to hear what other universities your DC considered or any ideas of some to look at?

She is very aware that even if she gets her predicted grades up to 3 X A star, that there is no guarantee of an offer from Durham & Bath as they are extremely competitive but thinks that Exeter might be more achievable. If her predicted grades end up being 2 X A stars + 1 X A, would you advise against applying for Durham & Bath?

I think it's sensible not to apply for economics at LSE if she's reluctant to do FM. She could always do the joint-honours programmes as that's what LSE recommend for those who want less maths.

She should think about what she wants to do next after uni

@PenguinCo DD did attend the Oxford open day, thanks to a post I read from yourself - thank you! She absolutely loved the course outline/subject talk for E&M. It sounded absolutely ideal. Despite chatting to the lecturer at the end of the talk who insisted that FM would not give you an advantage in the application process, all the students she spoke to had FM and insisted that 'everyone they knew had it, if their school offered it'. There are two other students in her year group who are applying for E&M with 4 X A stars including FM. Ultimately she has decided that they would absolutely get offers before her and that it might a 'waste of one of her choices'. Its a difficult decision and I didn't feel I had a good enough argument to try and persuade her otherwise. She is enjoying A Level maths and has discounted PPE.

I would be really interested to hearing about the best strategy for applying in stages as that is definitely something I would like her to consider.

@Skule Thanks for the fantastic information. If she brings up her history prediction to A star I am going to encourage her to be ambitious. I am under the impression that if you don't have at least 3 X A* that the odds of getting an offer from one of the higher ranked Universities is low (given she is coming from a decent independent school). There definitely seems to be an element of how risk adverse you are with your choices? I would say that DD has been a reasonably late developer and is doing well in 6th form. Although I don't know if that will top out for her or if her she will continue on her growth curve at University. I appreciate your point about the difference in salary levels 5 years after graduation, that is a really interesting point and we will explore further. I will suggest she has another look at Warwick. I thought that FM was a requirement for them, but having had a quick look - they don't state that on their entry requirements.

Is there any resource to have a look at what courses were available in clearing for the past couple of years?

@ClearFoundation I was wondering about Newcastle for an insurance option, if all went wrong. At this point, I would like to think that might be too cautious an approach. I'd like to check if it went into clearing this year. But I take your point about where it sits in the league tables.

@RampantIvy I hadn't realised that about York's architecture. Thanks for the heads up.

@Piggywaspushed Thanks for the info about Durham offers in your experience. I keep hearing stories about DC with 3 X A* not getting offers. Thats really interesting about your DS's friend getting an offer from Warwick and not from Leeds - I would have guessed it would be the other way around! Point taken that Leeds is not a back up and good to know about Warwick and FM. It seems that you need to put a range of choices down and hope that an element of luck/fate is on your side.

@WombatChocolate I think I'm coming to a similar conclusion as you. DD definitely fits into an inbetween case in terms of no FM but she is really enjoying and doing well at A Level maths, albeit being a consistent and relatively hard worker. Although I'm conscious that some people say that A Level maths steps up a gear in Upper 6th. She is fixed on Durham, Bath & Exeter and really needs to decide on whether she wants another 2 X ambitious choices, with the hope of success in one or 2 X safer options.

Economics is very competitive, as you have rightly gathered.. DH had 4 A stars in FM, Math, Physics and Economics and didn't get into his top two choices: Oxbridge and LSE.

He was offered UCL, Warwick and Notts and took UCL.

He has been very happy there and just graduated but it's a very math heavy course. IMO, those who don't take FM might struggle at Warwick, LSE, and UCL plus Oxbridge. These unis may not state they need FM but nearly everybody who applies will have FM. And the course may be hard without.

However Notts is a beautiful campus. Simply gorgeous! DS has friends who went there and loved it.

My own DC did their masters in economics at Nottingham and absolutely hated it. Yes the campus looks nice, but that's only in the summer. In the rainy months it becomes damp and muddy.

Found the course badly structured, the teaching quality and support next to none. The vibe of the whole university was that it was just a party university focused on the undergraduate "uni experience". They didn't really find it as academic as they would have liked. No Nobel laureates coming to give talks, no world leaders. A big change to their UG days at Oxbridge.

Oh, I stand corrected on Notts then!

I wonder if PPE is easier to crack with no FM?

Probably fine for UG tbf. Just the change of uni was a lot for my DC. Arguably the course just wasn't right for my DC and they were studying areas of economics they were not passionate about.

And yes PPE is easier to crack

hi OP, my DD is off to study Economics at Manchester this Sept. She had predicted grades of 3 A stars and achieved A star in Maths, A star in Economics and A in Politics. We live in London and she loves the city (having moved sixth form from our leafy suburb state secondary to a state sixth on the other side of London - due to sport she plays at decent level) but wanted a different city experience so LSE (and other London unis) were out. She also had no interest in Oxbridge.
We looked at Warwick but she found the campus stifling - same with Durham. She loved Manchester immediately because it has a strong campus feel for accommodation (especially in Fallowfield) and a university centrally located in the city. She didn't like Bristol because the accommodation and the university buildings were so much more dispersed. She loved Birmingham (a campus uni) far more than she expected - partly because campus is only 7 mins away from city. She also visited Loughborough (because of her sport) and ended up applying (with 3 A star predictions) to Manchester, Loughborough, Nottingham, Birmingham and Sheffield and got offers for all five. She chose Manchester as firm (3 x As) and Sheffield as insurance (AAB).
I guess my long winded point is that -as I am sure you recognise - for most students it is about where they can see themselves living and fitting in and the course that seems to suit them, rather than the "name" of the uni.

Also for information, on the night before results day (because we were looking at a plan B just in case!), Manchester had no economics courses in clearing, Nottingham had dropped from A star, A, A to 3 As, Loughborough had dropped from 3 As to 3 Bs (biggest drop I saw!) and Sheffield, Leeds, Birmingham didn't have places in clearing for economics.
And, with many apologies for such a long post, I saw someone upthread had mentioned disparity in income etc post graduation (and I may yet regret not pushing DC to apply to Oxbridge/LSE when I am hoping she can support me in my old age!) but worth noting that Warwick Uni advertise themselves as 6th in UK's top 100 grad employers, whereas Birmingham and Manchester are number 1 and 2.

https://online.flippingbook.com/view/747999993/22/

Appreciate this is not economics specific so, as ever, I think we all have to take these "league tables" with a pinch of salt.

Good luck to your DD, I am sure she will thrive wherever she chooses to go.

@Townline re. clearing options, I don't know of any list or resource you can refer to, but can tell you that Lancaster, Loughborough, Nottingham and York are consistently in clearing.

Nothing to do with the quality of the courses, but more to do with the trend of students increasingly preferring larger cities.

Lancaster loses out to Manchester and Liverpool in popularity, York to Leeds and Sheffield, and Loughborough and Nottingham to Birmingham and Warwick (close to Birmingham) in the Midlands

Re. risk aversion in Economics applications, I think it's good to approach it from the standpoint that you are likely to get more rejections than acceptances. That's just the nature of the game and not really a reflection on the candidate and their abilities.

Don't see clearing as a last-minute back up, but instead plan for it now and visit a couple of the campuses I've mentioned above. If your daughter can find a 'safety net' - a uni that's always in clearing/extra that she likes and could see herself attending - it'll reduce the anxiety attached to waiting for offers from the top courses.

Just to mention as well OP, aforesaid friend of DS graduated top of Warwick's pile (not boasting as he's not my child! but he got a first and two dept prizes) , did an internship at DEFRA and now has secured a grad role in the Civil Service - all without FM, so it can be done!

^ DD did attend the Oxford open day, thanks to a post I read from yourself - thank you! She absolutely loved the course outline/subject talk for E&M. It sounded absolutely ideal. Despite chatting to the lecturer at the end of the talk who insisted that FM would not give you an advantage in the application process, all the students she spoke to had FM and insisted that 'everyone they knew had it, if their school offered it'. There are two other students in her year group who are applying for E&M with 4 X A stars including FM. Ultimately she has decided that they would absolutely get offers before her and that it might a 'waste of one of her choices'. Its a difficult decision and I didn't feel I had a good enough argument to try and persuade her otherwise. She is enjoying A Level maths and has discounted PPE.^

She really shouldn't limit herself like this. Swing big! No harm in applying

I think for Oxford economics and management it’s 40 percent with fm and Dd has no issue without it. The 4 á star will have no more chance of an offer. Admission test is key. You can also do well without fm as long as options.

DS got offered econ at Bath. When offered he had FM, but he dropped to AS FM. I read somewhere they offered mainly to those with FM. Might be worth a check. His insurance was Lancaster. AAB offer. ABB if firmed. Top ranked uni. Lovely campus. Everyone seems to love it.

I would bring travel into the mix. Both Exeter and Durham are a big old schlepp from London. Nottingham is quite a bit closer, has a beautiful campus and great public transport. DD went to Manchester and we had to book a hotel every time we took her up or collected her, so costly in terms of time and money. DS went to UCL so could pop home on the 68 bus, and collecting his stuff just took a couple of hours.

DS applied to Cambridge, St Andrew’s, Durham, Bristol and Bath for economics/ joint degrees. Didn’t apply to Warwick because he didn’t like the campus but is happily doing a remote part time Masters at Warwick Business School sponsored by his employer. Didn’t apply to LSE as he didn’t want to go to London but looking back thinks that was a daft decision for an aspiring economist and he now lives and works in London.

My DNephew is current economics student. My own DC advised him a lot during the application process. Gave PS advice and tried to help a lot with Cambridge interview. Unfortunately DNephew was unsuccessful but is currently thriving at LSE. DNephew actually loves the LSE course and all what LSE has to offer.

I myself don't get this quick dismissal of LSE "because it's in London". LSE is perfectly affordably for all 3 years even with the minimum maintenance loan. My own DC insured LSE for UG and wished in hindsight they'd gone to LSE for their masters.

Totally agree that no-one should dismiss LSE just because it is in London! But if, like my DD, you’ve been brought up in London and since about age 14 been travelling all over with friends and enjoying all that London has to offer, it is surely not unreasonable to think you might want to also experience city life in another great city, eg Manchester or Birmingham?

An LSE economics degree gives greater value and educational experience than Manchester or Birmingham. They aren't bad unis at all, but why immediately turn down LSE "because it's nearby".

For us, my DC only moved out because it was Oxbridge and there was arguably a value add to move out. Had DC missed Oxbridge offer, they'd gone to LSE. Lived in halls year 1 and then commuted years 2&3. Would have saved us some money.

Youngest DC goes to imperial for physics and just commutes. Had an offer for Manchester actually but what's the need to move away.

You make it sound as if LSE would be easy to get into and somehow it has a recruitment issue! It's incredibly competitive and also not for everyone.

Yes, the reason to not pick LSE as one of your choices is that it prioritises FM, as far as I know, thought it does not specifically ask for it. OP's DD does not want to do FM. I think it may be wise to not pick LSE in those circumstances as the course is very math heavy.

I will defer to anyone with more experience who disagrees though, as I know there are uni advisors on here.

As I said, my Dc did not turn down LSE because it is “nearby”. As other posters have said, there are many factors which influence to where a young person may choose to apply, including subject requirements, graduate employment opportunities, etc. For my DC, a big city (other than London) and diverse student population was a significant element in her choice as well as the course content and employment opportunities. Just giving our experience in hope it contributes to OP’s DC decision making.

Can I remind you that it is perfectly possible to apply in say ictober/nov for Durham, Bath and Exeter, see what offers come through from those three and also how secure she is feeling in her predictions, and then add two other choices in January before the deadline. The likely success of that tactic does depend on offers coming through before the deadline though - if eg Bath is known for late offers in economics, that won’t work. Worth thinking about though.

I agree with this. Not choosing FM when the school offers it, is a bad look if applying for economics or maths + economics.

When we looked for DD LSE Economics (2024 starter) had a 5% offer rate for those without FM and a 9% offer rate for those with FM. Since DDs year its added TMUA as a requirement. Its one of the most maths based courses out there and I would avoid it if she doesn't want an almost all maths based degree. They do joint subjects with more variety. If you are by London I would agree with going elsewhere especially if she will work in London. Anywhere asking for TMUA is likely to be a more maths based course.

DD applied in stages - initially Oxford and LSE then in January added Bristol and Bath. No FM. 3 A stars. State comp. 12 8s and 9s and GCSE and level 3 FSMQ. Oxford offer start Jan then Bristol and Bath offers. Bath was only a couple of days to come through and they were lovely. She put them as insurance but it is a high insurance. Her back up was a year out. If she has strong GCSE grades (8s and 9s) and can do well in TSA I would give Oxford a go for E&M - you do need both those to get through to interview, its something like 18 down to 3 per place based on those 2 factors. 8s and 9s counted the same and quantity counts and its in context of school. After that its getting through interview.

She could absolutely stagger her choices. Be mindful that Durham are notoriously slow but Exeter is usually quick and Bath for some ppl take a good while (as per my DD). But if she receives Exeter straightaway then she has her back up (I think that’s what you said) and she can use the other 2 slots for more competitive universities such as Warwick. York is a stunning city but yes, the architecture on campus is of the harsh ‘brutalist’ design.