Worth requesting a remark?

[PushItToTheMax]

DD is 3 marks from an A in her best subject, which she is gutted about as she was predicted an A star and her results look well below her normal marks. She is going on to study this subject at uni, will also need postgraduate qualifications.

She is also 1 mark from an A in her 2nd favourite subject - this one was a shock the other way as she’s achieved a lot better than we expected!

She has met her grades for her firm so doesn’t technically need higher grades, but for her best subject especially she’s absolutely gutted and can’t stop crying. I think it’s really knocked her confidence about studying it at uni.

I can just about afford the remark costs but it will be tight. I’m just a bit unsure what to do for the best. We didn’t get to speak to teachers at school this morning as DD was distraught, trying desperately to hold her tears in until she got to the car. I’m trying to reassure her that BBB is actually really good, that she’s in to her firm but it’s not really sinking in.

See, you say that, but no I am not, I am zinging with enthusiasm and hope for the next term, I truly am. And I have taught for more than 3 decades, inner city comps. I have lasted more than 7x longer than the average classroom teacher, having taken promotions several times, then switched back to classroom teaching.

It is because I say no. And when I say no, I mean it, and stick to it. And I know and they know that I am irreplaceable - my department is already carrying two vacancies which no one will apply for, in spite of many attempts to advertise.

Teachers can and should refuse to carry out unreasonable requests. I appreciate it is easier in a shortage subject with many years track record under your belt.

Reviewing the marking on 6 papers is a reasonable request. Reviewing the marking on 60 is not. I have decided to say no, because I genuinely believe it is the best decision I can make for myself, for my school, for my colleagues and for the education system

Everyone wants the best for their children and if she has missed out on her firm uni place I can certainly see why you would request a remark. But this hasn’t happened. She was predicted a higher grade and she didn’t get it and she’s upset. By the sounds of it she got a B? This is a great grade. You’re not preparing her for uni life or life in general at all. There will be disappointments on the way for your daughter as there is for everyone and it’s how you respond to them is by far the most important thing here.

Yup. I was predicted AAB at A-Level, I got ABB - a touch disappointed, but it was enough to get into my first choice (Bristol for History with German). History was one of my Bs but I still got my 2.1 (not hugely far off a first) and went on to do a PhD in History. All’s well that ends well!

Well done. Of my PGCE cohort, hardly any of us are still teaching. I fully believe that the main reason I still am is because I set boundaries. Not always, and not enough, but more than many.

I got my A levels over 20 years ago. I barely remember my results now. No one has ever asked since the week I was 18 and gained my uni place. I took an AS level (those were a thing at the time) in geography. I got 100% in a paper I hadn't answered all the questions in. One of my class mates had some of her GCSEs remarked and they came back lower. She said goodbye to her career dreams that day. So much in exams is the luck of the draw, she was only a few marks off. Draw strength from that and move on.

I do think this no longer applies in a crowded and more competitive job market in the same way, no saying OP should definitely get a remark - see teachers advice on that side but A-level grades matter more these days, yes a degree will still trump that though but the job market has changed significantly and they expect more these days.

Much as I dislike the remark system in that it is biased in favour of people who can afford to risk money on a remark, it is perfectly reasonable for someone who expected reasonably or not reasonably to get a grade and missed, to be disappointed.

I'm sure everyone has had a disappointment where they have expected something and not quite got it - this forum is full of people around any gift time disappointed with often quite reasonable presents that aren't what they hoped for.
So if you have been performing at any grade level, to find that on the day you achieved lower it will be disappointing even if it doesn't effect your next step.
It's just as reasonable to be disappointed you got an A rather than an A* as a E rather than a D.

And if it was due to a mismark (they don't remark totally now, they look within tolerance, so it's not just a case of hoping that a different examiner will have a different opinion either) then why shouldn't they get the grade they are entitled to?

Over 3 dc we've appealed twice, both maths based subjects, one GCSE (3 marks off) and one A-levels (2 marks off). In both cases the student looked through the paper and could see in one case a question not marked, and in the other they'd written 7 for a mark, but in the total had put 1 (or similar). Both went back for a remark and both came back with the grade raised to what it should have been.
No it didn't effect what they did next, but it did mean that they went into the next stage with confidence that they'd achieved what they'd hoped and worked for - and that confidence is worth having for the next stage.

She needs to look at the breakdown for the different papers to see which one might be worth a review. She can get the papers back first and ask a teacher to look at them to see what they think. Given she’s so close to the higher grade boundary she’s unlikely to drop a grade (marks can go down as well as up) so it’s worth chancing your arm. The Head of 6th form/Head of subject/exams officer should offer advice and options at this stage.

That’s not how it works! As a teacher you can look at the papers and give your opinion but you don’t send them back to the exam board re- marked!

Yep. That definitely never happened.

In your shoes I would pay for the remarks (if your dd wants you to of course) as they her grades are both so close to the boundaries, it is highly unlikely that they would get moved down into the grades below. Mine had something similar last year where she was one mark below an A in her subject that she is doing a degree in, but she wasn't bothered as got into her firm option, so I thought if I mentioned getting a remark it would make it into more of a 'thing'.
If your dd ish happy with her university and studying her favourite subject she will do well.
I think @CinnamonJellyBeans meant the teacher marked how she would have marked the exam script, so the parent could see it would be worth asking for a remark.

They go through the entire paper, checking all questions that have not achieved full marks.

They then remark those questions, against the official markscheme, noting any errors and then send the paper back for a re-mark, citing the questions. Often, a colleague double checks, as the school does not want to waste money on a re-mark that has been submitted without certaintly.

It takes a lot of time. That's why my friend was so grateful to the two people who worked in their holiday to help out her son.

Eh? There's no such thing as a remark anymore anyway - it's a review of marking, which is different. Are you thinking of an appeal? That's very different, and is an option after a review of marking is unsuccessful. I did an appeal a year or two ago and it took me 4 hours to put together. It's completely different to a review of marking though... we would never in a million years dream of wasting teacher resources by having two teachers spending hours looking at one pupil's exam paper to decide whether to submit it for a review of marking. I've never heard of anything so inefficient in teaching... and believe me, that's saying a lot! 🙈

Also, I'm sure your friend was grateful to the teacher who looked through the paper prior to review submission. But imagine that multiple by 30, 50 or 100 A Level pupils (or in the case of my GCSE cohort, 150-200). Then perhaps it will be clear to you why this expectation is not okay, and why it is damaging to the profession in the long term 🤦🏼‍♀️

I fully agree with you @Worriedmotheroftwo

No one should have to work for free, especially in their holidays.

That's really not how it works. Lovely idea though.

@PushItToTheMax obviously you’ll do what you decide, but from a university point of view, it’s worth saying that once students are settled in their courses, the topic of “What A Level grades did you get?” disappears very quickly.

My students tell me that the topic is considered pretty naff after about a week.

If her A Levels got her where she wants to be, then I’d call that a win! For a taught Masters course, we look at the degree classification. She’ll need a minimum of a 2, i and it’s good if there are some 1sts in module results, if there isn’t a First overall. It’s rare to reject an applicant on their A Levels.

(Of course, for a funded studentship for a PhD, we generally need a First and a Distinction at Masters, but that’s a fair way off and doesn’t sound like what she’s aiming at).

If nothing changes after the review remind your dc that stress can have a real affect on exam performance

Particularly When the exams are so important for their future plans

It isn’t necessarily just down to ability

What the hell is homework oncall

Is that exactly as it sounds.
Can’t kids just do their homework on their own these days !

The irony in this post is off the scale.

Who cares about the mental or physical health of teachers? No wonder the profession is haemorrhaging good and experienced teachers.

Your friend was exploitative. What about actually paying the cost of a day’s salary for the teacher? £100 not some £10 bottle of wine. The entitlement reeks.

Well that would be exploitative on families where a review of marking is indicated as needed and they can't afford to pay a teacher. Perhaps we should move dates around for exam results but right now families shouldn't be facing the brunt of teachers saying they aren't paid so won't review scripts, especially where they can have an impact on further study places but even just the fact that these grades can be significant in the future. What happened in that case seems slightly weird, as he wouldn't have submitted his new marks but regardless change systems if it bothers you so much.

I actually agree with the point some PPs have made about resilience - someone (not the OP) said their DD had got into her first choice uni and had good grades but was so upset about one grade she couldn’t celebrate the others, and I would be more concerned about the DD’s ability to cope with uni and life than I would a few marks on an A Level exam - however, the fact that so many people report marks increasing after a review shows how vital this facility is and how worrying it is that examiners get things wrong in the first place.

A Levels are hugely important: the pupils work hard for two years and the results they get will determine not only which uni they go to but also their job opportunities (many graduate employers, including mine, look at A Level grades). Examiners should be properly trained and paid to ensure they are marking them correctly first time round. Some parents won’t have £50 per paper for a remark and that could mean their kids are stuck with incorrect grades that impact their futures for at least five years.

I very much agree with you, however the majority of university courses have much more modular assesments and more coursework and a multitude of tests/essays/presentations which are combined for a final grade in one module and then across the whole course. So there's more room for students to show their skills in a range of different ways and even when they have exams many times they're 24h or 48h which means the task of memorising the content (though you likely know it well to do well) isn't the main focus but the skills and arguments and persuasion or understanding the data. I think many students find elements of that easier than A-level, and it's seen as a much fairer way to assess a whole student's capabilities.

As you said its two whole years of work summed up by 2-3 exams so of cource students put more weight on a few marks lost from that in terms of what they've had a long-term target compared to university where there's more opportunities to show your skills and knowledge and not so much weight on one or 2 exams as exemplifcation of all your work and knowledge and skill.

The exam board charge a fee but some schools add an admin fee on top, presumably to help cover the costs of the exam officer working additional hours. If the appeal is successful, then the exam board's fee will be refunded, but probably not the admin fee.

At my son's school they charge an admin fee of £10 per script to just send students the scanned copy of their paper so they can look through and decide whether its worth getting a review. One of his teachers actively emailed her students offering to look over papers on request, but not the others - it is still the school holidays and even in term time they have no obligation, though many teachers will kindly check papers if asked and give students an opinion on whether it is worth a review.

We submitted my son's physics papers for review (without a teacher check) because he was just 2 marks below the boundary. We did the same with three of his GCSE papers and they were all upgraded, one of them from a 5 to an 8 (because a whole essay question had not been marked at all in the original).

At the school where I am a governor the teachers are encouraged to pro-actively check papers that are near to grade boundaries and reach out to students that might benefit most from a review. The teachers aren't obligated to do this, but most are happy to because they want the grades to rise as much as the students do. It is a comprehensive state school though, so no fees are passed on to parents unless they pro-actively request a review that doesn't increase the grade.