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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Harvard free tuition update today

139 replies

poetryandwine · 17/03/2025 16:24

Harvard University announced today that from the next academic year all undergraduates from families with incomes below $200,000 will receive full tuition fee waivers. MIT announced the same limit in Nov 2024.

Further generous aid is available at both institutions. Students may be expected to work for a few hours per week and to make a small contribution from summer earnings. Part time employment is typical of American students so there is no stigma.

Other (rich) universities are also raising their financial aid limits. However financial aid is often geared to American students, or in-state students at public universities (unless it is in the form of a talent scholarship of some type)

Obviously the universities I’ve mentioned are highly competitive, but they, others, and the superb (also highly competitive) four year colleges giving generous aid to international students can make it more economical to attend university in the US than in the UK.

The Fulbright Foundation website is generally an excellent source of information on American universities for British applicants, and vice versa, but it may take a little while to update.

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 24/03/2025 19:50

Ceramiq · 24/03/2025 18:37

@cityofgirls @poetryandwine My niece did the IB (not in the UK) and was able to take Maths, Biology and Physics at HL and Chemistry, English and French at SL. Doing Maths plus 3 Sciences is by special request to the IBO but is in practice granted to students who haven't discounted pursuing HE that requires all four subjects (which was the case for my niece in the country in which she was living). She had an offer of 43/776 for NatSci at Cambridge. In the end she got 45 and doesn't seem to have encountered any problems at all on her course - indeed, she has been actively recruited for a PhD when she graduates this summer.

My experience tells me that international qualifications (ie national secondary school leaving diplomas) are practically impossible for admissions teams to really understand but I would have thought that the IB should have been fully grasped by now and not viewed through the prism of A-levels.

Perhaps it is slightly inaccurate to say IB is viewed through the prism of A levels, @Ceramiq , but it is not far off. I agree that the holistic nature of IB is one of its great strengths and I don’t think most British universities have a good way of assessing that.

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 24/03/2025 19:52

PS Our largest international cohort has always been Chinese and we do think we have a good handle on the gao kao.

OP posts:
cityofgirls · 24/03/2025 20:32

Ceramiq · 24/03/2025 18:37

@cityofgirls @poetryandwine My niece did the IB (not in the UK) and was able to take Maths, Biology and Physics at HL and Chemistry, English and French at SL. Doing Maths plus 3 Sciences is by special request to the IBO but is in practice granted to students who haven't discounted pursuing HE that requires all four subjects (which was the case for my niece in the country in which she was living). She had an offer of 43/776 for NatSci at Cambridge. In the end she got 45 and doesn't seem to have encountered any problems at all on her course - indeed, she has been actively recruited for a PhD when she graduates this summer.

My experience tells me that international qualifications (ie national secondary school leaving diplomas) are practically impossible for admissions teams to really understand but I would have thought that the IB should have been fully grasped by now and not viewed through the prism of A-levels.

It isn’t viewed through the prism of A-levels. Not sure why you keep saying that despite the fact that we are all very familiar with the IB and many other international qualifications.

mathanxiety · 25/03/2025 04:53

Greenleave · 24/03/2025 16:39

Such a great wealth of info, so very grateful. We are thinking of applying too and the first SAT attempt wasnt as wanted(1540). My daughter said it wasnt hard and she didnt know what was wrong as there wasnt a way to check for it. Does Ivy league needs absolute marks. Would revising longer than 4 weeks is needed and could have improved the score. We think of applying but only when the SAT is good enough. Since the SAT result last week, she seems to be put off.

1540 is an excellent score. To do better, a tutoring service might be a good idea. But for a first try and with four weeks of revision (?) that was really impressive.

mathanxiety · 25/03/2025 04:55

@Greenleave
1540 would be about the average SAT for Ivy consideration, but they take a lot more into account. No academic score on its own gives any guarantee.

mathanxiety · 25/03/2025 05:07

Isthiso · 23/03/2025 11:11

Very surprised to hear that attending a good high school (and living in affluent area) is a prerequisite to doing well in SAT. As someone working in education in a developing country I know many children from a poor background who didn't attend good schools or live in affluent areas who went on to ace the SAT and receive full scholarships to top US universities.

It's not a prerequisite, but it helps enormously. The idea that the US is a meritocracy is a pernicious one.

GoldfinchesInTheTree · 25/03/2025 05:13

Wow it would be life hanging for us if UK universities could do the same...

Whycanineverthinkofone · 25/03/2025 05:46

GoldfinchesInTheTree · 25/03/2025 05:13

Wow it would be life hanging for us if UK universities could do the same...

The NCAA sports are insane as well.

means athletes get a free education while training at an elite level. Plus physio, psychologists, dieticians, medics and full support team.

something this country could learn from as the lottery funding and high performance system means many sports won’t work around uni. So you have to choose at 18. And if you aren’t funded by then you will struggle to keep up with those training full time with all the support thrown in.

Ceramiq · 25/03/2025 08:29

cityofgirls · 24/03/2025 20:32

It isn’t viewed through the prism of A-levels. Not sure why you keep saying that despite the fact that we are all very familiar with the IB and many other international qualifications.

Surely when an IB applicant receives an offer dependent on the three HL grades, it is viewing the IB through the prism of A-levels? The same has happened for the French baccalauréat which now has a common core and three Speciality subjects, one of which is dropped at the end of Première (Y12). UK universities give offers dependent on the Speciality exams and by and large disregard the rest.

DEI2025 · 25/03/2025 08:44

Harvard recruits around 20 UG each year from UK, MIT recruits about 2 to 3 each year. They are not merits based like Oxbridge. FA applicants are not in the same pool as non FA applicants and have much less chance.

Ceramiq · 25/03/2025 08:53

Ceramiq · 25/03/2025 08:29

Surely when an IB applicant receives an offer dependent on the three HL grades, it is viewing the IB through the prism of A-levels? The same has happened for the French baccalauréat which now has a common core and three Speciality subjects, one of which is dropped at the end of Première (Y12). UK universities give offers dependent on the Speciality exams and by and large disregard the rest.

I should add, for clarity, that Speciality exams are not taken into account for admissions to HE in France, hence it being all the stranger that UK universities use them as the main indicator for admissions.

Greenleave · 25/03/2025 10:52

We are in the UK and my daughter said both the Maths and English contents were not hard. She didnt know what questions she got wrong so it might be exam technique and the fact that she needs to be more familiar with the test. Its such a huddle because she isnt learning anything from it so pretty discouraged. We are still researching for other requirements of the application process such as essays, not very clear of what to do yet.

  1. SAT scores
  2. Essays
  3. School reports and teacher recommendations
  4. Applications
As per most of the UK peers, there wont be any wow factor in extra curriculum activities or volunteer activities which makes her application completely stand out such as stories we read in the press the like of extensive volunteering activities, working for UN etc. She just loves the courses that she wanted to apply for and wanted to do it in US.
ChangeitUp2 · 25/03/2025 15:19

@Greenleave What volunteering has she done, if any? And what extra-curiculars (sports / music / drama / etc)?
These are really important on a US college application, particularly for an Ivy League.

Even if she has done very little, list out for yourselves what she has done and lean into it because the essay questions at most US universities are giving you an opportunity to sell yourself as a candidate and this info is integral to the content of those essays.

Ceramiq · 25/03/2025 15:22

Greenleave · 25/03/2025 10:52

We are in the UK and my daughter said both the Maths and English contents were not hard. She didnt know what questions she got wrong so it might be exam technique and the fact that she needs to be more familiar with the test. Its such a huddle because she isnt learning anything from it so pretty discouraged. We are still researching for other requirements of the application process such as essays, not very clear of what to do yet.

  1. SAT scores
  2. Essays
  3. School reports and teacher recommendations
  4. Applications
As per most of the UK peers, there wont be any wow factor in extra curriculum activities or volunteer activities which makes her application completely stand out such as stories we read in the press the like of extensive volunteering activities, working for UN etc. She just loves the courses that she wanted to apply for and wanted to do it in US.

These people are very good at SAT tuition and have their own tech to analyse students' weaknesses so that they only work on those: https://bespokeeducation.fr/en/test-prep-2/sat/

Greenleave · 25/03/2025 19:20

Thank you so much for info on essays and SAT. We decided to apply late in Jan so it was kinda last minute. Her school also advises that applying both top UK and top US are not advisable. I think she wants to give SAT another go, the feeling is it is purely exam technique rather than the great contents to learn from which is discouraging. She is looking for a joint degree which few Ivy league Univs offering.

cityofgirls · 26/03/2025 08:49

Ceramiq · 25/03/2025 08:29

Surely when an IB applicant receives an offer dependent on the three HL grades, it is viewing the IB through the prism of A-levels? The same has happened for the French baccalauréat which now has a common core and three Speciality subjects, one of which is dropped at the end of Première (Y12). UK universities give offers dependent on the Speciality exams and by and large disregard the rest.

Not sure you’ve read my posts accurately - our offer isn’t dependent on the three higher level subjects. As I keep saying, it’s 42 points (standard offer threshold) but most candidates achieve 43/44.

Ceramiq · 26/03/2025 09:06

cityofgirls · 26/03/2025 08:49

Not sure you’ve read my posts accurately - our offer isn’t dependent on the three higher level subjects. As I keep saying, it’s 42 points (standard offer threshold) but most candidates achieve 43/44.

Most IB offers I see specify 776 (or 766) at HL, plus a total grade.

poetryandwine · 26/03/2025 09:37

Ceramiq · 26/03/2025 09:06

Most IB offers I see specify 776 (or 766) at HL, plus a total grade.

Edited

We do this

OP posts:
cityofgirls · 26/03/2025 09:55

Why is that seeing things through the prism of A-levels, though? It’s merely asking them to get a high grade in their main subjects. No different for asking for a high grade in any set of qualifications; or, for example, in the old AS/A2 system, looking for higher module scores at AS in year 12 in the three or four subjects that a candidate was planning to take on to A2 in year 13.

We are all very familiar with the IB. Around 10-15 years ago the number of candidates offering IB in our applications was close to 40 percent, with candidates offering a much more diverse range of qualifications including Pre-U and European Baccalaureate — it’s only recently reverted to a narrower A-level offer. We’re similarly familiar with the Scottish system, the differences between NI style GCSE/A-levels and GB ones, and a range of other different systems.

Ceramiq · 26/03/2025 12:17

cityofgirls · 26/03/2025 09:55

Why is that seeing things through the prism of A-levels, though? It’s merely asking them to get a high grade in their main subjects. No different for asking for a high grade in any set of qualifications; or, for example, in the old AS/A2 system, looking for higher module scores at AS in year 12 in the three or four subjects that a candidate was planning to take on to A2 in year 13.

We are all very familiar with the IB. Around 10-15 years ago the number of candidates offering IB in our applications was close to 40 percent, with candidates offering a much more diverse range of qualifications including Pre-U and European Baccalaureate — it’s only recently reverted to a narrower A-level offer. We’re similarly familiar with the Scottish system, the differences between NI style GCSE/A-levels and GB ones, and a range of other different systems.

It overemphasises a selection of subjects which is not the spirit of the broad IB curriculum. A-levels have a very narrow focus - the narrowest focus of any secondary school leaving diploma in Europe. Conceptually, each subject at A-level stands alone and is judged in isolation. That is not the spirit of the IB, of the European Baccalaureate, of the French baccalauréat.

I have no issue with a university requiring an IB student to achieve, say, a 7 in HL Maths if the A-level requirement is an A. But if there is no other subject requirement for A-level offers ie the offer will be A for Maths and A and A in the two other A-level subjects, that shouldn't be interpreted in IB terms as 766 at HL but rather as 7 in HL Maths and then an overall IB grade, not specifying HL grades.

Ceramiq · 26/03/2025 12:26

A-star

Same with the French baccalaureate. If French HE isn't using Speciality exams to select for admissions, why are UK universities doing so? The exams are notoriously unreliably marked and there is no remarking system.

Whycanineverthinkofone · 26/03/2025 12:43

ChangeitUp2 · 25/03/2025 15:19

@Greenleave What volunteering has she done, if any? And what extra-curiculars (sports / music / drama / etc)?
These are really important on a US college application, particularly for an Ivy League.

Even if she has done very little, list out for yourselves what she has done and lean into it because the essay questions at most US universities are giving you an opportunity to sell yourself as a candidate and this info is integral to the content of those essays.

Edited

This can be very important in the US I’d say.

dc was offered an Ivy League place based on their sporting achievements. They weren’t a stellar academic student, as in straight A*, but were good enough to make a place on the sports team.

most UK students I know at Ivy leagues (plus Stanford etc) have done so via a sports “scholarship”. Meaning the sport got them in, rather than a money scholarship. Some were excellent academically as well, a couple did sats to meet the minimum as well.

cityofgirls · 26/03/2025 13:54

Ceramiq · 26/03/2025 12:17

It overemphasises a selection of subjects which is not the spirit of the broad IB curriculum. A-levels have a very narrow focus - the narrowest focus of any secondary school leaving diploma in Europe. Conceptually, each subject at A-level stands alone and is judged in isolation. That is not the spirit of the IB, of the European Baccalaureate, of the French baccalauréat.

I have no issue with a university requiring an IB student to achieve, say, a 7 in HL Maths if the A-level requirement is an A. But if there is no other subject requirement for A-level offers ie the offer will be A for Maths and A and A in the two other A-level subjects, that shouldn't be interpreted in IB terms as 766 at HL but rather as 7 in HL Maths and then an overall IB grade, not specifying HL grades.

Edited

The subject grades for A-level are often specified, for example in the Cambridge A-star AA standard offer - it’s at the admissions tutor’s discretion and it’s often the case that specific grades are required in particular subjects, depending on the degree course. And it’s very subject-dependant. Some degree courses require a certain subject content or skill threshold at admission, or students won’t manage the course (medicine, STEM, maths, modern languages, some humanities). Others don’t require this or are studied ab initio (law, social sciences, philosophy, etc.)

If you applied to Oxford to do a STEM subject with only standard rather than higher level sciences and maths at IB, you wouldn’t be equipped to do the course because you wouldn’t have covered enough of the essential subject content and mathematical skills needed before arriving. I’m not sure why this is surprising, though?

On the IB/EB/French bacc and their system: well, the French and U.K. university systems are completely different. The French system is very hierarchical, with high drop-out rates at the public universities. Oxbridge isn’t quite comparable: it’s more like one of the grands ecoles. A student wouldn’t expect, for example, to go from the bac direct to a course at one of the grands ecoles, for example: they’d typically be studying at another university or a preparatory course for another two to three years for the competitive concours exams just to get in for, say, engineering.

Whereas you could apply direct from an IB to a four year engineering degree at Cambridge; but for that, though, they would specify particular grades in your IB higher level subjects, because you would already need a threshold subject requirement to cope with the degree. Not sure why this is controversial. Each HE system is different, and in many European systems students are often locked out of specific academic strands or professional qualification routes and courses at much earlier stages of their educational career, UNLESS they are willing to transfer across to another strand, and do several more years of preparation.

It’s different again for US degrees, where it’s also very common to split a degree between two institutions and do, say, two years at a community college in order to get up to the requirements for a further 2 or 3 years at a more prestigious college; whereas U.K. universities tend not to favour transfers. Likewise, there are subjects available at undergraduate level in the U.K. that are are generally graduate courses only in the US (eg. medicine, law). Each system reflects the way the transition from school to HE has evolved, and it’s not especially difficult to transfer between systems at 18, but matching parity of qualifications also has to recognise that there are differences as well.

Ceramiq · 26/03/2025 14:02

"Oxbridge isn’t quite comparable: it’s more like one of the grandes écoles."

The grandes écoles are absolutely nothing like Oxbridge. The clue is in the name: they are not universities and most of the teaching staff are professional teachers not researchers.

cityofgirls · 26/03/2025 14:21

Ceramiq · 26/03/2025 14:02

"Oxbridge isn’t quite comparable: it’s more like one of the grandes écoles."

The grandes écoles are absolutely nothing like Oxbridge. The clue is in the name: they are not universities and most of the teaching staff are professional teachers not researchers.

Are you sure you’re thinking of the right institutions, here?