Solicitor Apprenticeship

[stubiff]

My DC is starting to investigate this (and other sectors), so thought we'd share some findings which may be of use to others.

Would apply to a lot of jobs/industries, but agree that a lot can happen in 6 years.

@Imisschocolate17
The good thing is that the timescales are similar to UCAS, so they can run in parallel. If you get one, great, otherwise go to Uni.

Yes but you are much more stuck with an apprenticeship that you would be if just working for someone. My niece is doing a graduate apprenticeship with a very large UK company (turnover in excess of £20 billion) which decided to reorganise in year three of her four year apprenticeship. She has come out of it reasonably ok - now stuck in one department rather than rotating but only a year to go and an interesting department. Others were not so lucky finding themselves stuck in uninteresting departments earlier in their apprenticeships or having to move across the country to another site and transfer to another degree provider.

@TrumptonsFireEngine Noted.

It was advertised as adult social care. With SQE it’s skills based no need to move around 4 seats like in past. A paralegal in my team is about qualify just having worked in one team of Local Government legal as he has demonstrated all required skills and passed SQE1 & 2.

Is that a Local Government thing? My LA has no legal apprenticeships. I looked earlier. That’s quite a limiting career though.

Was a district council near me recently. My local authority offers fully funded solicitor apprenticeships but to existing paralegals.
Not career limiting at all. Can move to locum on high hourly rate or work in commercial firms (doing work for local authorities or other side) or government legal or agencies like national highways.
Planning lawyers for example can pretty much name their price at minute they are in such short supply and so in demand. Lots of senior planning partners in private practice have trained in LG.

It was this one but I have seen others.

It’s a stretch from adult care to planning law. I agree general roles in law in local government can be very good, but my comment was really related to adult care which, for an 18 year old, has limitations and a niche area. I’m surprised it’s a district council role. Here it’s County and has been for decades. Ditto children services.

Training up paralegals (or other existing employees) is why 18 year olds cannot get degree apprenticeships of course. There aren’t enough open to them as firms take who they already know. This is why so few school leavers get degree apprenticeships when compared to adults with relevant experience. I think the government wants to alter this ratio but it’s difficult as employers are risk averse.

Legal people in planning always do well. Barristers ditto. The premier land law sets often offer the best pupillage awards.

Having supervised apprentice solicitors over the past six years, I think on balance I would still advise my children to go down the traditional degree route. Going straight into a four day working week (with a day for studying) is a lot at 18. I am grateful that I had my time as a student, although I do acknowledge that fees are rather higher than they were when I was studying.

The one I posted is a unitary authority. But it’s an example of a solicitor degree apprenticeship advertised externally. There’s a definite move to more solicitor apprenticeships, SQE has changed market. Some large in house legal are also going down this route have seen BAE for example advertising.

Is it because of working at 18, or trying to do that and balance the studying at the same time?

@stubiff I didn’t study for a degree and I’m not a solicitor but I did 7 years of day/evening release study whilst working 4 or 4.5 days a week. I didn’t start until I was 24.

I think dc need to be very mature at 18 to do this.There’s no gentle introduction. Hence my query about how many 18 year olds are suitable for this route in a busy law department. I ended up in a senior role at my LA and studying part time for professional qualifications and it’s very hard work. My job was full on too. You have to give up any notion of being a student in the traditional sense. You work and study and meet deadlines! It’s really really hard.

Another aspect to doing a very good degree (law or other degree) is networking and careers advice as well as high quality lecturers and breadth of options. The breadth of learning available at the best unis is more than can be crammed into 1 day a week and working in adult care law (as an example). I do feel the brightest dc are better served by a degree but I also think apprenticeships suit some who are maybe risk averse?

Horses for courses I think.
If you def know you want that/any career then the benefits of a Uni degree poss don’t matter so much.
My nephew is just finishing a Quantity Surveyor degree apprenticeship and is thriving. He’s very much go-get-it so it suits him/his situation.

QS is a QS. I think there’s huge differences between solicitors. Oxbridge doesn’t offer a QS degree. Not sure about Durham, UCL or Bristol but there’s quite a big difference between law and being a QS. City solicitor is a very different job from being one for a LA or defending in the mags courts.

You need to see who is certifying the degree. If it's a post 92 university you may find that the legal profession is snobby about it

A lot of apprenticeship degrees are from post-92 universities. This is because polys and local colleges were designed to meet the needs of local employers and still, as universities, tend to be more flexible in organising courses around their requirements.

This is something I would be concerned about. DC is interested in applying for this route and would fit the criteria academically but I am not convinced that they have the maturity to take this on at this time.

On my point about part of the reasons for SQE being to make it easier to qualify, that remains the case - we are getting loads and loads of people passing SQE and using their 2 years of even voluntary work in the CAB as their qualifying work experience. They qualify but then cannot get a job - SQE moved the log jam from getting a TC to getting a job as a newly qualified solicitor. However that is sligthly off topic on the thread. If you do a good apprenticeship at a firm that might even employ you for life even if it is really narrow eg 5 or 6 years doing art law or social care etc then it does not matter if not many other people might employ you.

I like the system where you do 4 different departments of 6 months each including litigation which is the traditional training contract and which most of the firms run or something similar as you tend not to know even after an LLB which bits of the law you might enjoy so rotating and also getting experience in other areas does help you not only make up your mind but can be useful in your later career. Of course apprentices can as much as trainees work in 4 or more different areas of law.

My advice to most young people is decide the life you want and income level etc and then work back from that as to which areas of law to do.

Also I would be slightly sad if my child who was bright and academic missed out on the university experience I must admit.

Chatting to a partner at a local firm they employ their prospective trainees as paralegals for 4 months and choose them that way. It’s not necessarily the ones with the top academics that have the skills they need. In a provincial firm frankly they would prefer a “normal” cheerful intelligent trainee with excellent social skills with clients to an Oxbridge genius type who can’t get on with people.

@TizerorFizz Are you suggesting that QS is easier because the elite Unis don't offer that degree?

@Xenia That's (the QWE requirements) an issue with the SQE, not an apprenticeship.

@mitogoshigg
As the majority of top firms are offering apprenticeships, I don't think they can be snobby, as they see it as an alternative route in. Agreed, it could be an issue if the apprentice getting to NQ is having to move firm and new employer doesn't offer apprenticeships and takes a dim view of them (but maybe the NQ wouldn't want to work there in that situation). Once the apprentice has a few years PQE then you'd hope that they are employed on their skills not whether they went to Oxbridge (although I'm sure this happens!) or got the degree from BPP or ULaw.

@SilverGlitterBaubles Yes, 'maturity'. The want-to-be apprentice needs to have the necessary skills and behaviours at an early age. A lot won't, a few will. If they do and that is the best route for them, then great.

@TheaBrandt
Yes, a friend of mine's firm employs paralegals (and you need a degree), then after a period of time recruits the trainees from that pool. A kind of 'apprenticeship'! Can you do the general job (even though you're a graduate) before we let you loose as a solicitor.

In a way, it's bonkers that you can get a first job paying £40-60k, then after 2 years experience (in 4 areas of the business) double it!

@stubiff Thise employing a QS know the QS qualifying route and no (well unlikely) QS will be competing against an Oxbridge grad for a job as a QS. Few unis offer QS degrees. With law, unless you want the niche job for life, lawyers do compete for jobs and they will be faced, certainly in London, with competition from all these elite uni grads.

I know the building industry! To some extent I know law - although not apprentice route. Being a QS isn’t the stiff competition that is law. It’s more like nursing where every grad gets a job. Employers won’t look at your degree and where it’s from because there’s no real pecking order. With law, thousands of law grads don’t get near a job and recruitment is heavily nuanced towards top unis in London . Being a QS is entirely different in terms of competition for jobs. So comparing apples and pears. That’s all I meant.

The SQE has moved to the BPTC model. Train at least 3 times the number you need every year and let them, and all the other disappointed young people from
previous years, fight it out for pupillage roles.I think law companies have recruited trainees from paralegals for years.

stubiff, I agree my point was a side issue and my general point on the thread that if the apprenticeship for an 18 year old is in a firm where the levels of pay later on are what they would want and the area of law might be one they might like for life (it is hard to change specialist areas later) then go for it - or at least have a go along with a university application given there are so few apprenticeships of this kind it can be wise to have a back up plan.

Yes apprenticeship partner university we use in local government is a post 92 one. It’s same provider for friend’s dc at a regional firm. It won’t be an issue for them to secure employment or move post qualification due to in demand areas of work they are training in. Their SQE pass rates are very high for apprentices, almost 100% v 50% national pass rate.

Where can I get more info?
https://www.sra.org.uk/become-solicitor/sqe/solicitor-apprenticeships/
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/career-advice/becoming-a-solicitor/qualifying-without-a-degree/apprenticeships
Firm Open days, Insight days, etc, e.g. Welcome to Slaughter and May https://www.slaughterandmay.com/careers/early-careers/solicitor-apprenticeship-programme/
Events, e.g. https://www.legalcheek.com/event/virtual-event-series-for-sixth-formers-considering-solicitor-apprenticeships/
Blogs, e.g. Holly Moore (first Sol App @ thatlawblog on Instagram) or https://www.shoosmiths.com/careers/emerging-talent/careers-blog/blog/ace-your-a-levels-apprentice-legal-influencers-help-get-law-door for a list of others

What person might they suit?
Organised, mature, resilient, confident, multi-tasker.