Industrial Placements - How many manage to find one?

[Ellerby83]

Just wondering really how hard it is to secure a 3rd year placement. What proportion of students suceed. It seems more and more unis are offering placements so there must be large numbers applying for the smallish amounts of placements advertised.
DS is studying Comp Sci.

I think stats around likelihood of getting a placement are difficult too. Lincoln told us that there were more placements available (2 years ago) than students opting for them. Part of the reason is students give up on applying as soon as they are making decisions about 3rd year accommodation and perhaps don't want to get out of synch with their friends doing a 3 year degree.

I think that is part of why Bath is so successful. They already have a reputation for sandwich degrees and so many get placements, their friends don't give up hunting as they don't want to do 3rd year outside of synch with their peers. My DD and most of the people we know secured their placements between spring and summer.

It's not easy for students and is very stressful but they are adults and it's up to them how determined they are and how long they want to keep applying for. I know it can take its toll mentally. If they don't get one, they finish their degree in the typical 3 years. It's not a sign of failure. Students need to understand a.placement year just means the option to do a placement, not that a placement is given. I think most do. What I don't think they realise is applying for placements is like applying for graduate jobs, often with a 5 step recruitment process.

The question was asked at every open day / offer holder day regarding chances of obtaining a placement. The reply every single time was ‘most obtain one but there’s no guarantee’. I think students hear ‘most’ and assume it’s not a difficult process, especially when there are ‘placement teams’ within a department. There probably does need to be more transparency. In fairness we never heard more placements than students wanting them.

This has been an ongoing problem for 10 years. Grad job salaries in many sectors have been static for 10 years. I totally agree the word “most” is ill defined and “most” students and parents do seem to think the university has a bank of placements. Not all students can attend open days and the data is obscure. “Most” can be ? %. There’s little info about how they are obtained and the huge effort needed.

Sandwich courses were the province of the polytechnics who had really good links with employers. Lincolnshire has one of the lowest % of degree holders in the workforce. Are they truthful or just marketing the course? Where are the students getting placements? In Lincoln? I doubt that very much. As they don’t have to tell anyone where students are placed, and the numbers, how does anyone even know how many students drop out of the system and don’t bother? I think it’s much fairer to publish the truth. Good or bad.

Bath tends to attract high calibre students from the SE. My neighbours DC who went there did placement year near home. Lots will
probably go to home in London. Housing in the uni city usually requires an early decision. Bath is well known for their placements and others have joined the bandwagon. It’s a selling technique for too many and preys on fear of not getting a job upon graduation. That’s not always fair either.

Remember it isn't necessarily 'just' finding a suitable placement, often, if having to look further away from where they are staying, it is then struggling to find suitable accommodation that will let them take up such a placement.

It may be worth trying to find out, too, how many students that did secure placements, went on to struggle in adjusting back to University for their final year and, perhaps, went on to withdraw/not graduate. Possibly not data that is generally kept, but perhaps should be.

Please have your student offspring consider this before jumping on the 'placement/sandwich year' bandwagon. Yes, they can have strong, beneficial outcomes, but they can also derail some students, who may have otherwise confidently completed a 'non Sandwich' degree.

These things are not generally spoken about enough.

@butterflymum the return to university hadn’t crossed my mind. You make an interesting point.

I'm simply sharing my experience. Bath quantified to us the percentage who got placements. So did Lincoln and UEA for my younger DC.

I'm not here to defend the universities. DD and I were both taken aback with how difficult and time consuming it was to get a placement. But there is a bit of anti-placement vibe here and I wouldn't want students to be completely put off pursuing them. It's good to be realistic about things but the same is true for the whole of the university experience. Parents need to be clued up and add that pinch of reality.

@fortyfifty I am absolutely not against placements. What I don’t like is lack of transparency and inaccurate marketing when they advertise the courses. Too often it’s made to sound easy when it’s not. So absolutely not against sandwich courses, but I take issue with poor information on which students make decisions.

Did you know how many placements were found by parental contact at those universities? Bath will have legions of very proactive students and parents who are well connected. What % were directly supplied by the university? What % did year 3 at the university? What was the average number of applications made? Were all placements within commuting distance of Bath and Lincoln, or were they elsewhere and students went home for the year? How did students manage y3 accommodation? At some Universities, you secure this in January. What happens if you don’t know whether you have a placement or not?

I’ve no doubt placements are a doddle for some but it’s not a universally great process and students simply are not aware of the issues and they should have realistic info based on past data from the university. It’s not a huge challenge to collate it in y4 and give accurate data. Plus a revision of courses is the placements are not forthcoming. What happens if placements are not good enough? Who vets them? My DD did one she found herself. It was abroad and the university just said “ well done, see you when you get back”.

The placement team has contact with the company offering the placement.

Did you know how many placements were found by parental contact at those universities? Bath will have legions of very proactive students and parents who are well connected

Honestly, I don't think this is as big a thing as you think it is. It's more likely work experience and summer internships are found via family contacts than a year in industry - which is very often advertised in the same way a permanent job is. No-one we know got a placement via contacts. Subjects studied, science, business, engineering, psychology, economics, physics.

What % did year 3 at the university?

Do you mean how many didn't do placements? At Bath about 2/3!do a placement.

What was the average number of applications made? Were all placements within commuting distance of Bath and Lincoln, or were they elsewhere and students went home for the year? How did students manage Y3 accommodation? At some Universities, you secure this in January. What happens if you don’t know whether you have a placement or not?

These things are so variable it would be madness for a university to put out specific stats on then year to year. Returning students give a presentation to students at the beginning of year 2 which helps with sharing of knowledge and experiences. Placements are all over the country. Some commute if they are lucky to live near their placement. Finding accommodation is part of the logistics they have to deal with. Again, not easy. But not necessarily a reason not to apply. These students are on the whole 20 by the time they are navigating this.

Again, I agree students need to understand this when they are applying but without looking at every prospectus right now, I don't know how transparent or misleading universities are.

What harm do you think is being done to young people? Do you think they'd have chosen different universities or is it just they are having to potentially deal with disappointment?

@NotDonna see this from 2023, but just as relevant today:

Placements

Support should be foremost in mind, before, during and after.

And Supporting Placements

Here's a snippet from an AI generated overview, but even this small part, together with both links above, provides food for thought. I am not against placements, but do think some students are 'falling through the gaps', so to speak, at all stages, and highlighting this can hopefully open more people's eyes up to encouraging their student offspring to consider the whole concept, pre to post, and encouraging them to remember to seek out the support they need at each stage.

Hopefully it helps someone who may have otherwise struggled.

Just seeing the last days updates re ; accommodation When my ds1 did his placement his salary included accommodation costs so although it wasn't in his uni town, relocating wasn't a problem at all. DS2 is also currently on a placement. In both cases the university had a process to verify the placement meets the course requirements, so no one does a dud year out and calls it a 'placement'. Before COVID, university staff (course tutor?? not sure) used to go and visit the placement student at their place of work to see them in action but now its all done remotely. Both ds's have regular remote meetings (about 3 of them) with the uni and placement manager). They also have to write 2 reports about the placement to submit to uni.
My DS's have not heard of a single person who obtained their placement through contacts. It would be virtually impossible now because they are all advertised online like normal graduate jobs, its only at the last stage they get to see someone face to face so its not like years ago you could just bring a relative into your dept. to do an internship. When ds2 was applying for his, he called it 'Placement/Internship season' at his uni, nearly everyone was doing testing, interviews etc and reporting back when they were made offers so I doubt anyone was sitting around relying on 'contacts'.
I do agree that universities need to be more transparent about success rates of placement applications.

A poster upthread mentioned students being derailed from their studies and not returning after the placement. I actually believe its the opposite - students who've been on placement have worked hard to get those placements and will return to university with even more determination. They've been off for a year working, they likely have been offered a job upon graduation and now just have a yr left to finish and are looking forward to applying what they've learnt to their studies. They also have renewed confidence about their degree, so there's very little reason for them to drop out after a successful placement.+

Is this guidance more intended for the type of degree where students are put on regular placements from their first year? Healthcare, teaching, pharmacy etc... Not that wellbeing isn't important for students in 3rd year on a year's placement.

DD who did a placement last year found the academic writing catchup useful. She found her marks have dipped a little on her return (essay based subject) but not sure how much this was the placement or time spent job hunting or just course getting tougher.

One of my nieces went to University of Loughborough studying finance. At the end of the second year they had to apply for a year in industry. The bigger firms including accounting firms came into her uni and students could apply for placement years. She said they used their second year exam scores when allocating places. She went to Caterpillar and they sent her to Rio de Janiro for 2 weeks. She also had to do all of their new employee training programme. When she went back to Loughborough in her final year she realised she'd jumped ahead of many students who didn't get such a good placement.