Typical A levels for law

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Am I wrong in thinking that for law specifically that there's no need for any specific A-levels apart from one essay subject?

@mimbleandlittlemy The Cambridge uni guide to A levels talks about A levels that are best prep for their courses. You could be pedantic and say the subjects listed in their first list are not “facilitating” but in effect they are the same subjects. If DC want a competitive law course, take two of these subjects. It’s simply good advice. As is maths for Law at Cambridge.

The reason RG didn’t continue with facilitating is because when the cap on student numbers was lifted they wanted more students. So why not be less picky? At least Cambridge is honest. Some subjects are better prep than others. It’s just a fact.

It might have changed since I did finals but it was basic double entry book keeping and reconciling accounts. As I recall there was then some company accounts to work through or partnership accounts.I think that the second part of the exam was hard dealing with company.

As a solicitor you have to understand these basics eg when to transfer money from client account to firm account to ensure money is never owed by firm to client and for eg how to handle disbursements etc. I find it extremely useful when I had to look at self employed claims to be able to read a P and L account.

The exams might have changed since but it was definitely the one exam most likely to be failed and some clever people failed it as they hated Maths. I had a vomiting bug when I sat it and it was a blur.

Nowadays they will probably have some decent software to practice the exam with and it’s bound to be a lot easier as a result.

Really someone who has recently taken the exams can advise.

Not a lawyer, but doesn't it depend slightly on the type of law you want to practice.

Maths might be a good idea if you see yourself in an area of complex commercial law. Not that A level maths will get you very far but it suggests someone who is happy with concepts and who does not shy away from numbers. At one point I was a client engaging lawyers to work on complex multi decade deals (PFI) and, well, you needed to be able to get your head round it all. Ditto an interest in/engagement with STEM might well be useful for patent law. If you are planning to study for a law degree, A level choice becomes a way of demonstrating this interest/aptitude. That said I wonder (again I am not a lawyer) whether those interested in technical areas of law are better off reading specific subjects at University. For example one friend read maths at Cambridge before going into insurance law, and two patent lawyers I know read science and languages respectively - the latter, who was very bright, specialised in international patent law.

In other areas maths wont be as important, though you ought to be comfortable. My accountant offered to check my mother's probate lawyers calculation's, and they were out by a factor of over 10%. He was not surprised. He did not charge. They did.

I did maths, physics, French and A Levels, followed by a Geology degree at a RG uni. Then the law conversion. I now work in a global tech/finance firm as a senior in house lawyer. Virtually zero maths involved, what is involved is lots and lots of complex drafting, analysis, effective communication in a variety of forms with a range of people within and outside the organisation, management of own workload, and working effectively under sometimes huge amounts of pressure.

I didn't even do amazingly well in my A Levels but I did well at uni and the post-uni stuff.

@Needmoresleep You are correct. Around 50% of lawyers did not study law at university. Cambridge do like maths but their course might be more geared to commercial law. Their masters courses are. Most law courses won’t see maths as a particular advsntage but 2 of the subjects listed by Cambridge are still the best ones to take.

A standard law degree doesn’t really equip for a specialism. Often lawyers transfer to law after studying or working in that field. Certainly barristers do, Also most lawyers will formulate what area of law they enjoy from criminal to commercial and apply for jobs accordingly. DD does family and barely did 5 minutes of family law prior to getting pupilage. You have to understand what fits you best.

Not exactly.

What I was suggesting is that those recruiting for legal jobs in more technical areas will presumably be looking for aptitude. (As opposed to law schools who really won't care.) An essay A level, say history, gives an indication that someone is able to analyse, write well and make a reasoned argument. Some maths or science presumably indicates a level of comfort with numbers and concepts that will appeal to recruiters in specific areas.

Was your daughter looking for commercial law? Why did she opt for family law given she had not chosen to spend time in that area beforehand. My understanding is that pupillages are so hard to come by that if you are offered something you grasp it with both hands. For that reason I am not sure why your daughter is a good example of why you should or should not take maths A level. Unless she is planning to transition into something more commercial.

TizerorFizz I'm puzzled by you saying that the undergrad course at Cambridge is more mathsy than the course at Oxford. It's the same law after all and the option range at both universities is huge. A student can go whichever way they please.

I would also think that a Science might help for actual work or even Computer Science for some case work eg complex fraud cases or it / computer tech legal work.

Now I understand why dd was having a wobble last night about not picking English lit a level. She is very good at it but the college does one of the same texts as her GCSE and she couldn’t bring herself to do it twice ! Weird as her school is a feeder school.

She is doing politics history and philosophy. She is more interested in the human rights side of law than anything commercial but does hope to apply to Oxford.

These A levels are fine right ?

@Needmoresleep She chose family because it suited her personality and aptitude. It’s “her”. Others were more interested in many alternative areas of law, eg immigration, human rights, construction, land, employment, media etc , but Family is a defined area in which to practice within the Family Courts. So interests and aptitude for an area of law are very very important.

Before you get pupilage you need to have a cv that’s good enough to get noticed so you plan how to get that. Being “commercial” is not what everyone can do (or indeed should do!) and no, they don’t all aspire to that aspect of law. At all! Yes, aptitude is needed for any area of law but there’s lots of areas to choose from and students have to narrow this form eventually. Law students are exposed to variety from an early stage, conversion grads need to get up to speed very very quickly.

@Countrylife2002 Oxford ask for essay subjects. So that choice looks fine to me.

How good is philosophy? Does it help with legal ethics and jurisprudence?

They are fine although the politics together with history is going to be weak/ potentially boring if the two specifications overlap, as they often do.

It's fine and not especially.

@pivoinerose When you look at the Cambridge guidance on choosing A levels it says “Maths - which is useful for many courses at Cambridge, including law”. My take on that is that they are not lying, I don’t know the precise curriculum or options but it’s there in black and white.

On their Law admissions page they recommend the following subjects for a strong application: English, MFL and History. Plus they mention that other popular subjects are economics, maths, a science, psychology and law. Then go on to mention even more subjects. So there’s obviously no set formula but the three main subjects are English, MFL and History. I don’t think Oxford is any different. They just say essay subjects.

TizerorFizz I still don't quite see how you think that the content of the Cambridge law course is more mathsy. I can't say it's not; I just don't see that it is and I've never heard that before - just interested in what you base that on.

Crossed!

@pivoinerose My DD did history and politics. They were completely separate. No overlap at all.

@pivoinerose I don’t think Cambridge are wholly clear, but I’ve quoted what they say!

Oh I see TizerorFizz. No that means nothing about the content at all. Maths is self evidently a good subject for Law but Cambridge pointing it out doesn't say anything about the substance of the course at all. Oxford is generally much more reticent than Cambridge to name A levels unless they are actually essential. But anyone choosing between the two for Law absolutely shouldn't think that the actual courses are more/ less mathsy because they emphatically aren't.

Yes I was generalising from the particular specs at our school where for years the overlap was enormous. Schools sometimes do this because it makes life easier for a history teacher to double up as a politics teacher without creating too much extra work.

My son did law at Cambridge. He was told at the open day that the best lawyers are good at maths. He did history. English literature and maths

Well obviously ihaveanaughtydog. But having an aptitude for maths is very different from needing to do it at A level.

I’m a lawyer in the City. I didn’t even do a law degree, never mind A level.

Things to consider:

• good results are essential - so play to her strengths
• choose traditional, academic subjects (law A level is not one of these)
• within the above parameters, law involves logic and writing, so a combination of those is helpful. The people I know who studied law (at Cambridge) did a mix of History (top choice), English, Maths, the sciences, a language.

edited to say - there is no actual maths in law (degree) at all. But ability at maths at higher levels helps to demonstrate logical ability. That’s all.

Exactly JumpinJellyfish. And there are plenty of other subjects which demonstrate logical ability too - Chemistry, Physics, MFL. A strong hand of GCSE grades in that suite of subjects will demonstrate that same ability even if the applicant prefers to take other more creative subjects at A level.

Not a terrible idea to do the law a-level to see if you’ll like it or not. Honestly, law at uni is interminably dull unless you’re really into it. I should’ve done politics instead (which I appreciate some would find interminably dull, but I’m really into it…)