How important are extracurricular activities, sports, hobbies etc for UCAS application?

[BlueSkyHawk]

We're Brits, currently living in the US, but my DD wants to return to the UK for uni. Here in the US, there's a really big focus on what you do outside of school, especially sport, for your college (uni) application. It seems more important than your grades!
My DD is very academic but not at all sporty and I'm trying to reassure her that in the UK, universities are focused on your predicted grades and less interested in extracurricular stuff. But is that still the case? Obviously it's been 25+ years since I did my UCAS application! What kind of extracurricular stuff do you think UK universities expect/are interested in?

This isn't America

This thread just highlights, yet again, how unfit for purpose the whole Personal Statement aspect if University applications is.

I thin it highlights something about parents who seem in denial about university places going to those who are demonstrably the best candidates for a specific subject, and who appear to think that Junior should get credit for his D of E or grade 8 bassoon.

I do think some perspective here is also needed. What is good for the young person, good for their long term future development may not be the same as the UCAS application. I said up thread co-curricular was more relevant for applications and not extra curricular, that doesn’t necessarily mean the extra curricular or life outside of co-curricular is unimportant.

DD has volunteered in a role since she was 14 and just got her 5 year award. She still volunteers for Girl Guiding whilst at Uni as it is good for her and good for society. It didn’t help her application for Uni one jot. She saw lots of DoE people volunteer for the minimum amount of time possible and were just ticking a box, some ended up staying on and loving it but they were in the minority. She has always worked since she was 14 with a p/t job and that has contributed to confidence, skills and certainly in Uni interviews I think helped, but only from a character perspective, not PS or other reason. Her experience in the workplace will hopefully also help her when she is seeking a job after Uni. It isn’t all about the UCAS application.

Not really silly. If you can afford to send your kid to an African country for a month where the fee to do so also covers the materials for the school they are building as well as their board and lodging / travel costs / trips out, then you are definitely coming from a place of privilege.

UK application are completely different to US ones. For starters, you have 4,000 characters for your personal statement - that's characters, not words so each letter AND space counts. You absolutely don't have the space or requirement that US applications do to list your top 10 extra-curricular activities or your top 5 academic awards or whatever other categories are still available on the US applications. UK schools do not offer AP classes. In 99% of applications, you do not have the opportunity to offer any further information. There are a small number of applications where they may contact you later to write some additional information or there are some cases where some universities will allow you to write a second personal statement if you are applying for two different courses at the same uni - I think maybe Durham for instance but not sure on that? However writing individual essays for different unis which is a thing in the US does not exist here. This makes the personal statement more difficult because you have to cover all bases and can't e.g. praise the stucture of a course or teaching style at Uni X if that statement also has to cover Uni Y and Z too.

The timing of offers is different because UK offers are made on the basis of exam results so you may get an offer beforehand but then not be able to take it up when exam results come out in August and you miss your grades (some unis/courses will still make an offer if you have dropped a grade but not guaranteed and generally not for competitive courses/higher-ranked unis). I appreciate that international students can get earlier offers confirmed (because of the ongoing nature of US assessments rather than terminal exams) but the UK system overall is geared towards conditional offers until exam results come through so the emphasis on those grades is far greater than e.g. the fact that you were Head Boy at your school or won a Physics essay competition.

In terms of what goes in the personal statement, some unis will tell you that they are important and some will say that they barely look at them so it's worthwhile trying to find out where your desired unis fall on that spectrum - you can sometimes find out that info from Open Days, websites like the Student Room etc. You can also make an educated guess at which course will rate extracurricular, volunteering and jobs - one of my DC studied a vocational health-based course so relevant work experience with children/elderly/ill was important as was being able to talk about his part-time job giving him experience in teamwork, routine etc. Courses like that will also often interview post application. Other son did a design-based degree and there I think the interview and portfolio required was far more important that anything he put on his personal statement.

In general, by the time you talk a bit about academics, part-time work and interests and how any and all of that links to your chosen courses on UCAS, you have used up your 4000 characters!

What kind of extracurricular stuff do you think UK universities expect/are interested in?

For Admissions, we're not.

We look at the grades - achieved or predicted; the spread of subjects studied and the relevance for the degree programme applied for, and in interview (if there is one) we ask questions about the personal statement & the subject.

But ...

It can be tough adjusting to university & homesickness can set in. A student with extra-curricular interests that they are really interested in, not just developed for a college application - may well have a more resilient approach to living away from home for the first time.

Extra-curricular activities at university are a great way to build friendship groups, learn stuff, and generally ease into adulthood.

She saw lots of DoE people volunteer for the minimum amount of time possible and were just ticking a box

@PettsWoodParadise the Brownie leader told DD that she was a little tired of getting "tick box" volunteers. DD was a young leader for three years, so clearly not a tick box exercise. One of the other young leaders was a D of E volunteer, but she stayed for a couple of years in the end.

When I was at med school I remember one of the application reviewers stating how owing to the sheer number of excellent applications they get they could just throw them down some stairs and select the ones that fall on the top few steps. Reality is, id be more focused on ensuring my kid was healthy, especially psych wise so s/he had the grit and resilience needed for uni, especially for the more academically challenging ones. I have seen a lot of students burn out because all they've done is academia and extracurricular and so are at a greater risk of burning out and/or struggle with just connecting to people. Personally, I'm gonna let me kids just be happy with whatever they want to do without pushing for brownie points. Imo, a confident and someone who can connect will shine ahead of any candidate who has lots of brownie points. Also a colleague who I trained with and now is on the interview panel states she specifically looks in-between the lines. Those who apply for medicine tend to come from money, therefore they are more likely to have a long list of expensive hobbies that they have excelled at. She specifically looks for the kid who was inner city, lower end school, but still managed to thrive. Imo this is where you are more likely to get your gems - someone who has the grit, determination and resilience regardless of circumstances. Plus IME they know how to connect with patients, I cant tell you hoe many times I've seen doctors just not ‘get it’. It comes through in consults where they tend to be more judgemental and do more harm than good.

I thought it might be interesting to share some HEPI (ed think tank) research which surveyed just over 100 university professionals involved in assessing personal statements (see link below). Around 20% said PSs are very important, another 30% quite important and the remaining 50% not really important. Most PSs are read/assessed in just 1-2 minutes. So your PS may or may not matter but, either way, needs to be to the point!

I suspect the importance of PSs is very course specific and very much focused on competitive entry and/or unusual courses. My DC ultimately decided on non-uni routes but did complete PSs as part of applications and treated them as an exercise in setting a rationale for being interested in and prepared for a set of 5 potential courses. Various experiences or activities were then drawn in as evidence to support that rationale.

There are obviously proposals to alter PSs but, in reality, this is only about chunking down a single block of text into 4-5 separate elements. So, personal statements will not being disappearing as such.

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2023/06/15/how-do-admissions-professionals-use-the-ucas-personal-statement-2/

Mine are at academic Independent schools. They are very much encouraged to do extra curricular Drama, Music. Sport, Partnerships etc but totally for their own self development, helping out in the local Community etc.
They are told to write 2 sentences at most about it at the end of their PS as the Universities really don't care about any of it, unless related to the degree there applying for obviously.

Absolutely! DD being 19 with 5 years of service is so much more different from a tick box.

As a team manager and recruiter I look more favourably on a someone working in a fast food restaurant than a DoE minimum service (and nothing else), but I do know DoE who do so much more than bare minimum so it is isn’t always clear. It so annoys me when recruiters have ways of discounting amazing YP that may sweep away disadvantaged ones who worked hard as they had to earn rather than go to Timbuktu.

I did DofE bronze and wish I hadn’t bothered. I was fed so much crap about it being important for UCAS but I don’t think I even managed to get it into my PS in the end. They don’t give you masses of space.

Gold might have been worth a mention (only 2 in my year made it to gold, compared with 60 odd who did bronze after being fed the same crap) but bronze is ten a penny.

I definitely agree btw with those who say extra curriculars are important (just not for your UCAS app).

I think they do help a student to develop in a more rounded way and learn skills such as adaptability, teamwork, getting on with others and problem solving.

And also really really yes once at uni as @YourPithyLilacSheep says, they are really key. DS is very sporty and that has given him a complete social group at uni, housemates, supportive friends and of course a physical outlet. He's held positions in the club (good for CV) and it's really been a blessing. Anther student I know well has been BUCS club captain for her sport and is president next year.

Not only sport tho of course - music with ensembles, drama groups, student union activity, student newspaper - there are many many things to get involved in, and for sure it is easier if a student starts at uni already interested in and active in an area. I really believe this and would definitely encourage it.

It is important to have something in your life other than study and work. It builds resilience and helps provide different friendship groups. Mental health can be the big drop out factor, kids with support networks manage better.
So, not extra curriculars not necessarily for personal statements, but for actual life.

Strongly supporting the posts of @clary and @BeyondMyWits just above, as well as similar posts.

you google local archaeology, and volunteer! many kids would have something available.

I have known quite a few use this in applications, either for history, or in the case of volunteering to do geophysical surveys, for physics degrees.

Where have you got Africa from? Most kids volunteer in their local community. The young people I am training as volunteers this weekend will all be working VERY locally - as none of them can come out of prison.

I think @Changinforaday is thinking of poverty tourism World Challenge, which is definitely not something an under privileged young person would be able to afford.

Archeology digs are very popular and you often have to pay to work on them. That and digs are often in out of the way places not near public transport so you need some way of getting there.

Not all disabilities / disadvantage / young careers are the same, some people will manage to volunteer and some can’t. They should not be disadvantaged by that fact. For some staying in school and completing level 3 qualifications is a huge achievement in itself.

depends on the dig, I am in a big city, and have no shortage, I have never had a car, and all my kids have participated, for free, by public transport. I think this is a bit of a misconception. There are loads of clubs and organisations which are free or cheap to join, and easily available.

I am sure there are some expensive ways of doing it, but I have never had any problem finding free ways

archeology in the UK is famously NOT in remote places, as much of our settlements have been in the same place since the stone age! So a lot of the time it is simply digging down where we are standing - I went to a state comp and we had a dig in our actual grounds once, where there had been a roman building.

There are digs in remote places too. There are digs that are expensive to join. There are kids who might not find a convenient dig to join. But generally speaking, a lot of kids COULD join a cheap/free local dig if they wanted to

I have googled in vain looking for archaeological digs near me.

Also, as often occurs on mumsnet, a city dweller is making an assumption that those of us who don't live in a city or even a town has access to the same amenities and public transport as they do.

I'm not quite sure how we went down the rabbit hole of concentrating on Archaeology work experience, especially when an admissions tutor on here said that for most subjects it's not important. However, someone interested in archaeology doesn't need to go on a dig, they could volunteer at their local museum, or Google the Council for British Archaeology who run an annual festival which has loads of online as well as in-person events or look at some of the many good lectures uploaded onto YouTube by people like Prof Alice Roberts. Not everything requires living in a city, access to transport or lavish funding. In fact, if the work experience is important for a course, I would think that creativity in accessing what IS available to a student and using their initiative, is far more important than Daddy being able to pay for a dig in Greece somewhere!

It doesn't have to be sport it has to be something to show they are a well rounded human