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Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Tell me about Economics courses at Uni

45 replies

blueshoes · 12/05/2024 21:43

I read on another thread that Economics courses are very different depending on which university you do it at. Would love to know how they are different and which universities.

Ds (Year 12) is considering doing economics at uni but dh and I are not from a finance background, so no idea which course is good or for what or what he can do after uni.

Ds is not a superstar on grades. Maybe AAB. Much as I would love him to go to LSE or Warwick (he does not want Oxbridge), those would be aspirational choices. So we are looking at other Russell Group unis.

His other subjects are Maths and Physics. He can cope with numbers, I think.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 13/05/2024 01:27

I am so grateful for the reassuring responses that the Finance world is open to my ds. He will be relieved. He did not do well in his Mocks despite his preparation and is simply gutted.

@Penguinsa even getting a grade up from his school may not be enough but that is good to know. He is re-taking his Mocks in September and has promised to work hard over summer. The economist roles you did at the banks sound amazing. Ds would love to get into something like that. The blacktie dinners 😂, travelling and international flavour would particularly appeal.

@Cannotbeasked Leeds is a great university and a fun city. Your ds did amazingly well. Vancouver is a fantastic place to live and work. What an opportunity it is.

@misszebra my ds will definitely be looking out for good industry connections at his uni. UCL and Queen Mary are on his list.

@Shimy, well done to your ds. When you say a year's placement, is that part of his course? Did he have to go out and get those placements himself? May I ask which uni he was at?

@ZenNudist so glad you said to do economics over finance or accounting. I did not realise writing a decent report is a thing even in accounting. Thanks for the tip on audit and tax. Those are good skills to have in the workplace and can see that they will open doors.

Ds just needs the grades ...

OP posts:
BasketsandBunnies · 13/05/2024 01:47

Economics is one of the most popular degrees at the moment and competition for places on the top courses is very tough. It is those DC your DS will be competing against for City finance jobs and you need to be realistic that there will be a lot of very bright DC in that pool. The top notch courses like LSE, Warwick etc.are not aspirational but completely unrealistic options with those grades, particularly if your DS is in an independent school. That said, even at a decent Russell Group Uni, Economics is a fairly versatile degree to have.

poetryandwine · 13/05/2024 07:07

Penguinsa · 12/05/2024 22:33

Best thing to do is look at the different courses in detail - Discover Uni has links to all the economics courses and their contents and where students went and earnings. https://discoveruni.gov.uk/course-details/10007786/9ECON001UU-202223/Full-time/ It is a very competitive degree and sometimes what the university has as offer grades the students getting in have in excess of - LSE I think normally would be 4 A stars or 3 A stars and they prefer candidates to have FM but as a 4th not a 3rd. LSE and Warwick are both known for mathematical economics but many will have maths and FM A levels. For the civil service economics jobs a course with 50% economics counts. Finance won't really have a preference between types of economics degrees unless the role is very specialised and then often a Masters or phD is required. All courses will have macro (unemployment, inflation, growth, trade etc) and microeconomics and some maths / stats then its varies. Mine had lots of options in history, sociology, politics, different countries, development economics and was definitely worth being at university for. The less mathematical will be more essay based. Generally a policy based role would take less mathematical and maths based finance jobs like econometric modelling would take more mathsy. General economist roles in banks would take either, more come from less mathematical ones in my experience as you have to do things like write press releases, speeches, attend dinners, radio/TV interviews, presentations so needs more writing skills.

The LSE offer for 2025 for Economic s BSc is A star AA with A star in Maths. They say they are accepting FM as one of three A levels if your school offers it (the implication being you should take it) and if you take four you only need a pass in the fourth.

However it remains to be seen to whom they will make this offer.

user1494050295 · 13/05/2024 07:16

misszebra · 12/05/2024 22:25

ridiculous. why wouldnt you apply to the best economics university?

Exactly. It’s the most oversubscribed course at lse. If you get in you are amongst the best of the best.

poetryandwine · 13/05/2024 07:26

HI, OP -

I am in STEM and not London based, also a former admissions tutor. A number of our students go into finance, along with the Economics students, so while London universities do have a certain buzz derived from the proximity to the world of finance you really don’t need to be there. A good Careers Centre is a big asset, though.

I am really writing to second the idea that yes, Econ is a very competitive field. The entry requirements will be minimums -,the last couple of years this Board has been full of parents whose DC were closed out of Oxbridge, Warwick, UCL (a big player in Econ but I don’t know their offer), LSE and Imperial despite 4 A star PGs. I don’t believe anyone is making offers of 4 A stars; it is just that there are so many strong candidates these Schools are only taking the very best - and some have substantial Overseas intake.

As you move towards the middle of the Russell Group the picture gets brighter, but always remember the Entry Requirement is likely to be the minimum a reasonably popular programme will consider seriously, at least while the field is so popular. (Whether a given applicant’s requirement is the contextual one or the standard one)

Best wishes to your DS

poetryandwine · 13/05/2024 07:31

misszebra · 12/05/2024 22:28

economics, to my understanding, is quite focused on theory rather than the mathematical side. finance incorporates more maths I believe.
for a uni, 100% LSE is the best, but otherwise I would suggest a uni in a city with a big financial sector, London ideally - makes post grad employment much easier, as many unis will hold industry talks with professionals and companies and these are invaluable when it comes to building a network for potential future employment.

Lots of economics, specifically the whole field of Econometrics, is essentially mathematics in disguise. Econometrics is one of the great strengths of the Economics research at both LSE and Cambridge

WombatChocolate · 13/05/2024 09:59

I’d emphasise too, that when you’re looking at a very popular course such as Economics, probably THE course of the moment, the grades listed really are absolute minimums and most of those receiving offers will have in excess in terms of predicted or achieved grades.

As has been said, for LSE, UCL, Warwick, Durham candidates with 4 A star predictions, including FM get rejected on a regular basis as there are simply too many of them. Many many if those rejected will achieve far in excess of the standard offer. Not many on the course will have only achieved the standard offer.

This is something for applicants and their families to get their heads round. Whilst many courses are recruiting courses and in reality struggle to fill and will offer to everyone with the standard requirement predicted grades, and in reality usually take students who miss by a grade or even 2 on results day, Economics at popular places isn’t like this.

I’d say that for a course like Economics, many students will need to consider the ‘level’ below in terms of uni ranking, than they might if applying for a different subject.

So AAB is decent. Of course it is. There are huge huge numbers of students with those predictions though. So as OP says, they have to ‘cut their cloth’ and it’s wise to be realistic.

The other thing to be aware of, is that with very popular courses, the PS can make more difference. Having got very specific reading that can refer to or talks they have attended or listened to from outside their course, plus importantly what they have taken from those materials that relates to theories they have studied and what else it has led them onto look at. This is the kind of thing better candidates have in their PS. If someone’s grades are marginal but not in the ‘bin them’ category, it can definitely make the difference in getting an offer for some places. So making a plan for this super-curricular stuff for the next few mo this is important if it hasn’t been done or started already.

Octavia64 · 13/05/2024 10:12

I did an economics degree.

In some ways it is quite an interdisciplinary subject.

The core of an economics degree is studying macroeconomics (so at the level of a whole country - things like exchange rates, unemployment, government soemding, why we have recessions etc and microeconomics (why households make the decisions they do - so looking at how and why people save, why they decide to buy one product over another, etc)

Then there are optional modules. For the mathsy degrees there will be statistics (because you can't really study any of the core stuff without understanding stats) and also econometrics which is basically using mathematics to model economic behaviour.

On the non mathsy degrees there will be stuff like economic history (eg the Industrial Revolution and why it happened) or economic development (studying how and why some countries are richer than others).

The areas that are most useful if he is looking towards finance or industry are the mathematical modelling ones. All industries and most public sector organisations use these skills and they are much rarer than being able to write essays etc.

That having been said, the maths involved is HARD. Many of the people in finance involved in mathematical modelling are actual mathematicians.

LSEMum · 13/05/2024 10:29

blueshoes · 12/05/2024 21:43

I read on another thread that Economics courses are very different depending on which university you do it at. Would love to know how they are different and which universities.

Ds (Year 12) is considering doing economics at uni but dh and I are not from a finance background, so no idea which course is good or for what or what he can do after uni.

Ds is not a superstar on grades. Maybe AAB. Much as I would love him to go to LSE or Warwick (he does not want Oxbridge), those would be aspirational choices. So we are looking at other Russell Group unis.

His other subjects are Maths and Physics. He can cope with numbers, I think.

AAB he could probably do economics & Econ hist

misszebra · 13/05/2024 11:23

my niece went to a fairly small university in London, its a private international and whilst their entry requirements are not high, its the teaching quality and connections she gained their that put her in and opportunity where she gained the fantastic job position she is now in (of course her hard work also when it came to getting it!). she studied finance.
my point is the university standard isn't the whole be all end all (of course be aspirational and include the big ones on the options), but its the network you build. she attended every guest speaker, Industry talk she could, and the employer she now has, she met at one of these.
all universities in big cities as far as I'm aware have these events and industry speaker visits, (not just private universities - all of them do), so whilst the university is absolutely important, future employment is hugely impacted by the opportunities someone takes (which don't always account to the degree). of Course others do get good employment at less connected universities, but there is always going to be better connections at central universities.

hope this helps!

Needmoresleep · 13/05/2024 11:45

The PS is very important. The fact that UCL, LSE, Warwick and the like are rejecting very strong applicants means that other courses (Bristol, Bath etc) become more competitive. It might be useful to look not just a offer grades but applicant to place ratios and the average grades people come in on.

For the PS read as much advice as you can find on the UCAS and University websites. If they say they are looking for students with particular characteristics, mention the characteristic and evidence it. No more that a quarter should be on outside interests, and ideally they can be presented in a way that demonstrates an interest in economics. Look at what is out there. Follow economists, or academics from that University, on Twitter, sign up for LSE online public lectures, read the course content carefully so you can say why that course interests you. Is there a popular economics book he enjoyed. Look on Amazon and see if there are similar ones recommended that he could read over the summer.

I have not looked at grades, but Bath with a year in industry is a good option, and Nottingham, Bristol, Exeter, Manchester, Edinburgh might all be worth looking at. There will be more. Or joint degrees. Like a PP suggested, these can have less hefty grade requirements.

The link is the Complete University Guide table for economics filtered by entry standards. Obviously there will be a few UCAS points thrown in for Grade 8 Piano but generally it gives an accurate idea of how incoming students rank in terms of A level grades. https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics?sortby=entry-standards

Economics Subject League Table 2024

Economists advise private businesses and government bodies on economic policies, through investigation and model-building

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics?sortby=entry-standards

user15913 · 13/05/2024 11:47

Your DS could look at something like financial maths at loughborough maybe? Also agree that joint economics courses can be easier to get into. Has he seen the liberal arts degree at Warwick - could do liberal arts with economics. looks amazing. AAA - Disciplinary Routes (warwick.ac.uk)

Disciplinary Routes

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/schoolforcross-facultystudies/liberalarts/prospectivestudents/undergraduate/pathways/disciplinary_interest

LSEMum · 13/05/2024 11:53

My son went to LSE. He's heard a lot of conflicting advice on whether for finance , it matters what university you go to

Though for MBB consulting he's heard it a lot that they are very very Oxbridge heavy.

blueshoes · 13/05/2024 15:34

Thank you so much for all the leads and tips. I am currently at work but will be reading carefully later today with ds.

I am grateful for the inspiration and faith in my ds. He is a regular playful 17 year old who probably needs a kick and is now floundering and confused at his grades. He can claw himself back.

OP posts:
BasketsandBunnies · 13/05/2024 16:30

@blueshoes obviously don't know the reasons for his underperformance but it might be useful to give him a reality check if this is really what he wants. I know two DC with four A stars including Further Maths (achieved last year) at A level (with stellar work experience and supras on their PS) and they both were both rejected by Oxbridge, LSE and Durham for Economics. They are both now at mid-ranking Russell Group Unis, (their fourth and fifth choices). That is his competition.

Phphion · 13/05/2024 21:19

Economics is not the same as Finance.

A career in finance would not be out of the question for your DS. However, a career in particular types of finance (the most mathematical ones) would be more difficult for him to access because these specific careers do prefer graduates from the highest ranked universities (Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick) simply because the highest ranked universities also have the most mathematical pure Economics courses and economics graduates of these universities do maths of a certain type and to a higher level (if they choose those options) than economics graduates from other universities. With AAB grades, these top ranked pure economics courses would not, as you note, be an option for your DS.

This is a cut and paste of something I wrote on another thread about different types of economics jobs:
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There are different types of economics jobs and different Economics degrees will equip you more or less for these jobs.

There are jobs that are heavily mathematical, for example in some areas of finance, insurance, pensions, plus more niche areas in transport, health, energy, etc., as well as some jobs in academia and consultancy. Big data and data mining, while it has generated more jobs in statistics, has also opened up demand for people who can do 'hard maths' in sectors where there previously wasn't much demand, the obvious example being advertising and communications. These kinds of jobs often involve day-to-day application of high maths and economic modelling in areas such as forecasting, planning, risk management and some policy-making. To do these jobs, you really need to be a very competent all-round mathematician and employers will not be looking for any old person with an economics degree. The kinds of courses that prepare people for these jobs are the ones that usually require A Level maths and prefer further maths as well.

Then there are jobs that don't really require you to be a high level mathematician, but they do require you to be a very competent statistician. These are jobs where you are still doing maths, but you are dealing more in applied maths and data interpretation. There are a lot of economics jobs that fall in to this category and it's a growth area generally, although there are a lot of not especially well-paid jobs in this area (compared to the average salaries of economics graduates). Some employers in this area would just want someone with an economics degree, but more likely, they would want to assure themselves that the person had some confidence and experience with maths, as evidenced through their having taken maths / stats-related economics modules and/or having A Level maths.

Finally, there are economics jobs that don't really involve a lot of doing maths. These jobs would include some areas of management and business functions more generally, some parts of investment banking, technical writing, some policy-related areas and other jobs where you are working predominantly at a strategic, rather than a technical, level and your job primarily requires you to interpret data, to understand it and to be able to communicate and apply that understanding. For these jobs, employers would just want an economics degree (or often just any degree) and economics degrees with a strong applied focus or those that allow you to focus on things like economic policy, history, social statistics and so on would be a good choice.
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In terms of courses, firstly be aware that Economics has become a very popular degree subject. This means that courses that ask for A*AA, for example, do not usually need to give much consideration to applicants whose predicted grades are a non-contextual AAB as they will already be needing to reject applicants who are predicted A stars because they get so many of them. Even courses that list AAB as their required non-contextual entry requirements will not necessarily make offers to everyone with AAB predicted grades. The more over-subscibed a course is, the more heavily they will weight the personal statement to differentiate between applicants who all have the necessary grades. It's fine to have some aspirational choices, there are, after all, no prizes for getting five offers. However, it is important to appreciate that for a subject like Economics at many RG universities there may be less leniency on grades than there might be for other subjects and to plan your application strategy accordingly, either including some safer options or aiming high and accepting that you may find yourself without any offers and needing to go through clearing with the limited choices that come with that. There are good Economics courses at some non-RG (and equivalent) universities, e.g., Essex and Surrey. I would personally be wary of BA Economics courses at lower ranked universities, i.e, ones ranked down in the mid-20s/30s and below, as usually that indicates that any maths taught on these courses will be pretty basic and low-level, providing little in the way of the desirable skills usually associated with Economics graduates.

In terms of content, most universities will have a first year compulsory core of macro, micro, some kind of maths or statistics, some kind of economic history/politics/philosophy/ideas module that is basically 'economics in the world'. There will be some courses with a slightly different core (and a few with a very different intro core) and the level and degree of abstraction will vary, with, as a generalisation, the higher ranked for Economics the university is the more theoretical in their approach and more concept and maths heavy their course will be, while lower ranked ones, and ones with a specific focus like business, will tend to be more focussed on practical, real-world application. There are exceptions to this, though. Some courses will also offer optional modules in the first year but others won't.

From the second year onwards, students will be able to take optional modules to focus on the branches of economics or skills that are most interesting or useful to them, so things like econometrics, development, behavioual, health, environmental or experimental econ, economic history, economic thought, public or other policy, trade, finance and banking and so on.

Better courses (imo) will continue at least in the second year to have a compulsory core of macro and micro because these are the fundamentals of economics and the building blocks upon which all economic thought is built, but it is increasingly common for universities not to have this post-first year macro and micro core because the students consider it boring and want to do fun and trendy modules instead. Two things that really seem to suprise students coming from A Levels are a) how much maths is required for most economics degrees and b) that there are actual fundamental principles in Economics that you need to learn - whatever you are interested in, whether it is Financial Economics or SuperFreakonomics, you need to know and understand the economic theories and concepts that underpin them so that you can then apply them to whatever interests you, and often that means putting in the hard, and sometimes boring, work before you get to do the cool stuff (this is a perpetual bugbear of Economics academics - if you can't summon up some minimal interest in the actual core knowlege and principles of the subject, please just study something else that you are actually interested in).

Some courses might also have other subjects in a second or subsequent year compulsory core, such as mathematical modules and research methods. You may also be able to do some modules offered by some other departments if you want to, although this sometimes works better in theory than in practice. When looking at optional modules, be careful not to fixate on a single module that you find particularly interesting, as there is no guarantee it will be available as staff leave, go on research leave and so on or it might be cancelled due to insufficient uptake, for example. Your DS should also consider if he might want to do a year in industry or study abroad and, if he does, investigate how that works at a practical level in different universities, e.g., Who is responsible for sourcing these opportunities? How, if at all, are they assessed?

I generally take the aspirations of 17 years olds to 'work in finance' with a pinch of salt (unless they already have some work experience or specific knowledge of finance) since it is so very, very, very common amongst prospective economics students and often what they actually mean is that they want a job that they perceive to be prestigious and well-paid (which is absolutely understandable and fair enough) and there are many jobs suitable for Economics graduates that 17 year olds have simply never heard of but that broadly meet those criteria without being in traditional finance. Nonetheless, if your DS has an actual interest in finance itself, he could consider looking at economics courses that are based in Business schools (generally economics courses will either be part of a broad social sciences faculty, particularly if they are very big courses in their own right, or a specific business faculty) as these courses will tend to offer more business and finance options, both within and outside economics, and some will orientate their learning specifically towards business, using business / finance examples when covering different economic concepts. Off the top of my head, from the Russell Group the business school-connected departments would include Birmingham, Cardiff, Exeter, King's, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle, and the ever-unusual Durham. There are probably others. QMUL economics is also very finance-based as a course. However, most pure Economics degrees will have sufficient options available for someone interested in finance to find enough interesting and relevant options.

As others have said, one thing to consider would be whether he would compromise on doing pure Economics in order to get into a higher-ranked university overall. Some (but by no means all) 'Economics and ...' courses will ask for lower entry grades, as will some 'Something Economics' courses, e.g., Industrial Economics. These courses may not offer the same grounding in pure Economics, which would impact on career prospects in certain areas of Economics, but a higher ranked university and a specialism / additional specialism may be more helpful in others. It is an incredibly high risk strategy to start a degree with the expectation that you will be able to transfer onto a pure Economics degree at the same university, particularly when entry to the pure Economics degree is very competitive, so I would advise against choosing a course with that hope in mind.

blueshoes · 14/05/2024 01:07

Appreciate the latest replies. I understand about the reality check. Ds is going to try to improve his Mocks grades and work out with his teachers why he is underperforming. He believes he can do better and I do too. It is frustrating and bewildering. He has one more chance in September and then we will regroup on his uni choices, seeing that Economics is so popular overall.

If he can improve his Physics, then he might switch to Engineering as a back up but right now, his heart is in Economics.

Noted that he can go for joint Econ degrees, rather than the highly mathsy Econometrics, that he should work on his personal statement. Also to look into the uni Career Centres, year in industry and attend every event and industry talk to leverage connections.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 14/05/2024 01:10

@Phphion I am most impressed by your knowledge. It is helpful to get your inside intelligence on the different types of skillsets and jobs that come with them. Will also be using your pearls of wisdom as a bible when evaluating the course content with ds this weekend. Ds is interested in the fundamentals of economics - he is taking it as an A level - and will also check out the business school-connected departments in the unis you listed.

You mentioned: "These [joint] courses may not offer the same grounding in pure Economics, which would impact on career prospects in certain areas of Economics, but a higher ranked university and a specialism / additional specialism may be more helpful in others."

Would you be able to give examples of the above. I think my ds can safely be ruled out of rocket science type mathsy econ jobs. But what of the rest? He is required to be strategic in his choices since he is far from going to get his pick. Want to start thinking about this sooner rather than later.

OP posts:
SerenadeOfTheSchoolRun · 14/05/2024 15:02

I saw this on What I Wish I knew about University - really helpful:

Take a look at the new beta entry grades data on ucas. It only comes up if you select 25/26 and it’s in the individual course data. It’s amazing and it allows you to put different grade combinations in and it tells you the percentage of people in the last five years accepted with those grades. It also includes the covid years so I can assume there might be a bit of grade inflation in there too.

PenPotter · 14/05/2024 15:23

The reality is Econ is incredibly popular. For grade improvement which would open more doors for him he needs to look at the tests he has sat and for each question work out how to increase the marks awarded. For Ds they go over these in class afterwards so they know what they missed. It is done in a different coloured pen so they can see it clearly. They use these as revision materials. Your son has a long period over summer to improve his grades but this does depend on how much he actually wants it.

Have you been to any open days? Given him a taste of what a uni campus or city uni looks and feels like?

Ds has an offer from Warwick which is his top choice. His PG are 3 A stars and an A. Their entry is 2 A stars and an A. He was rejected from Durham but has offers from all his other applications. He didn't want to try for LSE as they take 70% international students so very, very slim chance to get in.

The entry grades are the absolute minimum they will take a applicant in on especially for an oversubscribed course. There are usually stats online as to what grade profile a student has so an A star AA entry will be heavily weighted toward at least 3 A stars.

Google now for year 12 summer schools or courses he can take to help beef up his personal statement, lots of free things online, TED talks, uni guest lecturers on youtube, books he can read, podcasts he can listen to. He needs to show that he loves Econ and engages in it outside of his school work.

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