4th a'level for medicine

[autumn666]

Hi, my DS is in year 12 and planning on applying for medicine. I have posted before about his struggles with workload doing 4 A levels and he has finally decided to drop further maths to focus on his ucat and work experience.

However, his sixth form is telling him he should be aiming for 4 and generally being unsupportive, although everything I have read suggests that everything else carries more weight than a fourth A level.

He volunteers twice a week and in the holidays, has a part time job and reads around the subject of medicine daily and something needs to give as he's getting quite stressed.

Is there anyone who can advise as to whether it is the right decision, as he is now doubting himself, thank you.

[Wishesa]

No need for 4, offers based on 3 good grades, why risk not getting the 3.
I would suggest not studying medicine!

[autumn666]

@Wishesa thanks for your reply. We have spoken about the current conditions for doctors but he has been determined for years, I don't think anything will change his mind.

[JessS1990]

@autumn666

Hi, my DS is in year 12 and planning on applying for medicine. I have posted before about his struggles with workload doing 4 A levels and he has finally decided to drop further maths to focus on his ucat and work experience.

However, his sixth form is telling him he should be aiming for 4 and generally being unsupportive, although everything I have read suggests that everything else carries more weight than a fourth A level.

He volunteers twice a week and in the holidays, has a part time job and reads around the subject of medicine daily and something needs to give as he's getting quite stressed.

Is there anyone who can advise as to whether it is the right decision, as he is now doubting himself, thank you.

Compared to being a doctor or medical student studying 4 A-levels isn't that much work...

[Maybeicanhelpyou]

He’s correct in that he only needs three really good A level grades, and everything else he’s doing. But if he’s stressed already then he’s going to have a shock at what’s to come…..!

[autumn666]

@JessS1990 it's not the workload of 4 A levels as such, it is that alongside everything else that a medicine application involves. Have you experience of successful medicine applications where a 4th A level was more important than UCAT score or work experience? It is that sort of anecdotal evidence we need.

[opoponax]

Absolutely the right decision to stick with three A-levels. I have two DC at med school. People don’t realise how much effort goes into med school applications when they say why not do four. Best to concentrate on hitting your grades for 3 as the 4th wouldn’t count anyway. Good luck to your DS.

[Couldntgiveafunk]

There’s a big difference between being 16/17 and having the huge pressure of Alevels at that young age alongside trying to volunteer, read around medicine and also hold down a part time job while all your friends have a “normal” life, compared to being 18/19 and studying medicine being that bit older surrounded by peers doing the same and hopefully not having to work a job alongside for money.

Being stressed now isn’t an indicator he won’t cope. Having the maturity to look at balancing his workload rather than burning out trying to juggle it all is a good sign.

Having said all that, I work in a hospital and no amount of money could persuade me to be a doctor. It’s brutal.

[Maybeicanhelpyou]

At the moment the UCAT is extremely important.
However there is only so much practice you can do

[autumn666]

@Maybeicanhelpyou he is aware of the work to come, and I think the stress is really coming from the amount of things to be done over the next 6 months to have a successful application and knowing how to give himself the best chance of that.

Are you a med student or doctor? He has done a lot of research but any information on the realities of what he is facing would be great.

[JessS1990]

@autumn666

@JessS1990 it's not the workload of 4 A levels as such, it is that alongside everything else that a medicine application involves. Have you experience of successful medicine applications where a 4th A level was more important than UCAT score or work experience? It is that sort of anecdotal evidence we need.

I think that your question is wrongly framed.

Is a student who copes well with the demands of 4 A-levels and being committed to a range of extra-curricular activities because they enjoy doing them, perhaps also with a a part time job more likely to be successful in applying to medical school and at that medical school and as a doctor?

Yes.

[autumn666]

@opoponax thank you, that was our thinking

[dirtyblond]

Doing 4 could work against him as his average grade could be lowered, better to stick to 3 and get excellent grades

[autumn666]

@Couldntgiveafunk thank you, I think that's the issue, the amount of things that he needs to fit in and what is going to be more important to his application.

[Notcontent]

@autumn666 If he is finding the juggle stressful then dropping the 4th is definitely the right decision.

My DD has just been through the process (she is in year 13) and dropping her 4th A level was definitely the right decision. She had so much going on - UCAT, BMAT, interview preparation, etc. She now has 3 offers!

The interview preparation itself can be quite time consuming as it’s important to do lots of background reading on medical ethics etc.

Do you think his school might want him to stick to four for their own statistics - I.e. to make the school look good?

[justabigdisco]

I've been a doctor for nearly 20 years so can’t really advise on current A level choices but I was predicted 5 As and still only got 1 interview. I think the ‘other stuff’ does really matter.
It’s a really hard job and all you hear at the moment is negativity. I agree the pay is shit for the work that junior doctors do. However I just wanted to say that I still bloody love it and I wouldn’t do anything else. Yes it’s hard work but when you get into a senior position it does become much more rewarding. Good on him, and I wish him all the best.

[autumn666]

@Notcontent wow, congratulations to your DD!
I think that could be part of it, there has been comments that it is a shame as he's their most capable student in that subject,etc but he doesn't need it. It's just reducing the time he has available for what he does need.

[autumn666]

@justabigdisco thank you for such a lovely, encouraging response.

[Maybeicanhelpyou]

@autumn666
I am a dentist!
I have a dd who has just qualified as a doctor, and another about to qualify as a pharmacist! Both did the UCAT and BMAT and all the relevant work experience etc…. My younger dd is a more anxious personality and was always worrying about deadlines and whether she was doing enough, she saw the workload of her older sister and decided to withdraw her application. Medicine is an awful lot of learning by rote, committing to memory, you really do have to be a certain fit. You have to be extremely resilient. That’s why the application process is so rigorous, and why the UCAT and Bmat are designed the way they are.

[rachrose8]

I’m a maths teacher (and mum to 3rd year medical student). Medical schools want 3 high grades. Doing the 4th A-level is roughly 4-5 hours lessons and 4-5 hours homework a week extra to those who only do 3 A-levels.
I would advise a pupils in your son’s situation to drop Further Maths and concentrate on getting A’s in his other 3 subject and working to get a night UKCAT score this summer (alongside his volunteering). Good luck.

[Daisy12Maisie]

We went to a "get into medicine conference" they said don't bother doing 4 A levels unless you desperately want to. They are more interested in 3 really good ones plus the other stuff.

[Stillnotagardener]

DH and I are both doctors, would in itself not have discouraged DC to study medicine. Dç3 thought about it, and started with 4 a levels.
She then decided (and due toMH issues I discouraged her), not to apply. To keep her options open she continued, with minimal effort, with the 4.
Had she decided on medicine I would have encouraged her to drop one...

[Haffdonga]

My 2 ds (1 now an F1 doc, other a 2nd yr med student) both dropped a 4th A level to concentrate on the other 3. Neither regretted dropping the 4th even though they were doing subjects they liked. A 4th A level is just about prestige for the school and a waste of time for definite medicine applicants.

And for what it's worth, that year 12 was the year they/ I found more intensive than any other as they were combining serious study, driving lessons, volunteering, getting hospital/ care home experience, sports, doing D of E, prepping for UCAT etc etc all at the same time as being teenagers with all the socialising with mates, holidays, new relationships and exciting stuff that happens when you're 17. I'd say all that stuff was more important than a 4th A level would have been in terms of their happiness (and getting a place at med school.)

And yes, ds is enjoying the real job and doesn't regret his career choice yet ...

[ErrolTheDragon]

Don't quite a few choose to apply for clinical subjects a year later, grades in hand and with more time to get work experience etc? I guess that's another way of managing the load (with or without the 4th A level).

[Sybill]

Definitely focus on 3 A levels to get the best possible results in those. DD also started with 4 and then dropped one for all the same reasons above - UCAT, BMAT, work experience, paid job, EPQ/other research, interview prep, driving lessons, extra-curriculars, studying and a party or 2! She got 3 offers from 3 interviews so it all worked out well.

I also have a vague recollection of some unis only counting one type of Maths A level
in their offers so he may not get any benefit for it anyway. Worth double-checking that though.

[joan12]

We are in exactly your position. He dropped FM. All the other stuff is more important.