Do you need 3 A Levels for university?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

For various reasons my 16 year old dd has been out of school this year, she should be in Year 12. She is keen to return to school.

She is still on roll at a small local private school but she has obviously missed a whole term's work. She feels she SHOULD be doing 3 A levels and is bright enough to do so but she's had a tough few years and I want her to consider something less challenging.

I had looked into various BTEC options which she turned down. One local school offers a triple BTEC in Applied Science which in theory she could start in January and catch up. But she seems to think she can walk back into the school where she is on roll and start 3 A levels after missing a whole term.

If she is set on doing A levels, would it make any sense to start with 2 instead of 3? I've heard you can get into university foundation degrees with a low number of UCAS points.

I've also made some applications to local schools for her to start Year 12 in Sep 2024 but she's not keen on this and wants to stay in her year group.

There are some courses which would accept 2 but entry tends to be based on ucas points and not usually the more sought after courses/unis. Is it the full extended level 3 Applied Science, equivalent to 3 A levels? What is she hoping to take at uni?

Yes, equivalent to 3 A levels, I checked with the school. She doesn't know what she wants to do next.

How about an access course I think they are equivalent to 3A levels and only take 1 year to complete. I think you have to be 19 but usually free have a look at the OU

Try an Access course, equiv to 3 A levels in a year, gets enough points for decent Uni. Lots of Uni courses also require English Lang and/or Maths

You need a minimum level of education to get in to Uni to cope with the demands

Edited: typo

depending on uni course btec is a much easier way to get in a course as many unis accept them ane it’s easier to get higher geades

i wish i’d told dd to do btec as i know so many getting on courses which are more competitive and need high a levels which these kids wouldn’t have achieved

dd would have got on courses with btec which she can’t get on as it’s harder getting high grades at A level compared to distinctions on btec

Two of my DCs did a Level 3 BTEC (equivalent to 3 A Levels) at our local college. Both got into Universities. One of them the top Uni in the UK in their subject.

Hi, OP -

I am a former admissions tutor, I hope I can help.

What type of degree does your DD wish to do? Some universities base admissions on UCAS tariff points, and it is possible to achieve the required number of points with strong A Levels in two subjects.

However at the risk of overgeneralising these universities tend broadly to focus towards vocationally orientated degree programmes - for example, IT and computer gaming instead of Computer Science. Neither approach is better, but they tend to lead to different types of jobs.

The research intensive universities, including the ‘Russell Group +’ and others, use A Levels. Virtually all if them want three. (My uni is RG)

It is great that your DD is keen to return to school. If she is bright and if you are able to provide her with a bit of tutoring, she could probably start two A Levels a term late and catch up. But I really would caution against anyone starting three A Levels a term late. Pupils are famously over-optimistic (which is great in many ways) and your DD needs to adjust to being back in school after some time.

Both a BTec and A Levels could be good options. If your DD were mine (and bright) I would be encouraging her to make the choice. If she preferred A levels and a vocational degree and two good A Levels would get her into a good programme, I would encourage her to rejoin her year group now and do two subjects. If she wanted a more traditional degree I would be encouraging her to realise that taking an extra year now to do the rest of her life right is a highly worthwhile investment in herself.

Disclaimer: I am less familiar with BTec pathways. I hear excellent things about them. I am not discouraging that! I just don’t think a bright pupil ready to resume studies necessarily needs a less intellectual pathway, if she prefers A levels

Three A levels in a year and a half is a big ask. That said, a bright kid only taking two, is likely to end up at a low ranked uni, which may or may not suit her. Why has she missed so much school? Is her MH resilient enough to put her all into catching up and doing 3? Does she need a lower ranked uni where she can pace herself and focus on her health? Would she be bored and wishing she'd aimed higher?

And what poetry said!

Hi bend, <waves> the reality is she has probably missed too much work to catch up, Ds's sixth form is 4 1/2 hours per subject per week for taught lessons not including homework. Last term for us was a 15 week term, so 67.5 hours of missed work per subject or over 200 hours alone in missed lessons.

You know her best, could she cope with the reality of being so far behind if she goes back to school and tries to start the 3 A levels? Would it just ruin it all for her and mental health? I sometimes think children need to experience something for them to know it is not right for them. This might help her embrace the BTEC route for her starting September 2024 if she acknowledges that she cannot cope with the original 3 A level plan.

Also how supportive do you think the school will actually be considering you have had to fight to get her in? I know you are the one left picking up the pieces no matter what she chooses. I hope you are okay.

Could she do 2 A levels and a Btec equivalent to one A level.
DS did a mix of BTec/ A level. The BTec does not require the academic skills and the intellectual rigour that A levels do. But it still requires time and effort.
She might manage that workload if she has missed the first term- but she would have to be accepted by the college and she would have to be utterly committed to catching up- and have a clear plan of how she intends to do so.
The Btec would give valuable UCAS points- but wouldn't be accepted by all universities. And rightly so- it doesn't prepare a student for the academic rigour of a top university course.

If she wants to study a particular subject at Uni, then go for the A level in that subject, not the BTec- to keep more options open.

Actually even some of the 'top' universities will accept BTecs now - it simply isn't true that RG institutions insist on A levels, it may still be mainly true but it is no longer universally so.

A family friend went to Durham on a BTec and proceeded to get a First. This person is currently doing a Masters at another RG university.

Good to know, @thing47 , and very cool.

Thank you

A friend’s son went to Nottingham with a BTec, and got a first, and this was after being kicked out of school midway through A levels - in the days when they did that sort of thing.

Btec is accepted at many universities but some courses will insist on an A level
too. Usually in a required subject. So
mfl and maths are not usually possible - for example. Engineering might require maths A level in addition to the BTec. So always read the small print on entry requirements.

I think your DD would need to be 18 to do an Access course and I don't think you can do them in a school setting. As she is only 16 it would probably be best for her to do A levels or BTECs or a mixture of the two. There are some courses at Russell Group universities that do accept combinations of A levels and BTECS or access courses eg. Health Science subjects. Obviously there are also plenty of courses at institutions outside the Russell Group that also take a mixture of A levels and other qualifications.
It might be better for your DD to start lower sixth next September and start at the same time as everyone else as it would be very hard to catch up on any subject a term in and also to join in socially mid year after a time out of school.
I would look at sixth form colleges as well as the current school as they probably offer the widest range of subject options and will have others who are a year out of their original academic year.
I think it would be easier for your DD to start in a different year group at a new school as I can see why she wouldn't want to be in the year below at her current school.
However if your dd is adamant that she wants to return to her year group at the current school you could contact them and see if it is practical for her to catch up with two subjects and what her likely options would be at the end of the second year..eg what courses she could apply to with 2 A levels or what options there would be to do a third A level in a year.

I live in an area that doesn’t have 6th form colleges and schools. A levels are just not available outside of school. My local college of FE is offering purely work based qualifications. No doubt cities offer more choice but areas with smaller towns may not. Lots of the non grammar schools offer BTecs here and many dc combine them. Also RG unis are not the only unis. There are great courses elsewhere. I would look at where the best support is available for school based qualifications and then uni.

Just coming on to say exactly this.

I work in admissions for an RG uni and we accept BTecs. One thing to be mindful of, though, is that while BTecs might be accepted an additional qual might also be needed.

For example, Computer Science is my admissions area. We accept a BTec extended dip in IT but applicants must also have an A level or equivalent qual in Maths. The reality of applicants having both is really quite rare.

So, if your DD is looking to ddo BTec in Applied Science, then it might also be worth looking at the entry requirements of degrees in the areas she might be interested in just to make sure she's covered.

Our house has 3/4 with BTECs. The fourth joined the forces.

The 3 are now a Chartered Accountant (via professional exam apprenticeship), a Software Engineer (via a degree apprenticeship) and a Letting Agent (after gaining a creative degree).

Thank you, this is all very helpful. I wish I could persuade dd to consider a BTEC. It’s hard because all her friends are doing A levels and she doesn’t want to be seen as different.

@poetryandwine ah tutoring, brings back painful memories. I suggested tutoring to dd from year 9 onwards, she went through phases of wanting it but when it came to it, she couldn’t manage the 1 to 1 interaction (autistic). One particular low point was when the tutor arrived, waited in the car till dd was ready, dd got stressed and I had to communicate with both parties.

@poetryandwine she is bright (top 1% of the poplulation) but due to various problems and poor attendance from year 10 she didn’t do as well as she should have at GCSE. She got a decent set of results with 6s in the key subjects. But I don’t think enjoys studying much, at least not at the moment. She doesn’t have a career plan so an apprenticeship isn’t any good. I want her to choose something that will be successful for her so she feels good about herself.

No. It depends on the university. Not all use the tariff system. Competitive universities look at grades + subjects .

The number of subjects she takes really won’t be up to your daughter. Her college/ sixth form will advise her on what they will allow.

However, some universities do use the tariff system, which means the higher her grades, the more points. Some colleges will allow a third year so that students can get the equivalent of three A levels.

Many universities offer a foundation year, which are attached to the start of a degree. She will have to pay tuition fees for those though.

She may also want to look at Higher Technical Qualifications- lower entry criteria, and it’s possible to top up to a full degree

If she really doesn’t want to leave her friendship group I’d suggest 2 a levels now then do a third year at a local college that offers an a-level in a year (I re-took an a-level doing this method and worked part time then had a “gap summer” before taking another gap year before uni . It at least gives her longer to get her head back into studying and to choose what she might want to do (and it may well be that uni is not suitable for her)

As other posters have said. No, you don't need 3 A Levels. There are many entry routes to the university. Access courses are a great option. Many can be done remotely and are free if you get accepted into university after completing the course. It is also possible to go down the more vocational route by working and studying simultaneously. If you do this route, after completing a level 5 HND, you can do a top-up degree (meaning that you get a degree with one year of study - ie. one year's tuition fees). This applies to many different jobs, from nursing to law. The advantage is that your daughter would have an advantage over her peers as she would have work experience under her belt, a degree and little or no student debt.

I think it is wrong that there is so much pressure on 'smart kids' to study A Levels and then go straight to university. The system is so messed up. If you are prepared to go your route and not follow the crowd, you can play them at their own game and be much better off in the long run.
I got into a top 10 university with no A-Levels to study PPE (which is highly competitive). The whole UCAS system only applies if you are 18 years old and fresh from school. Work experience is highly valued. I wish someone had taken the time to explain the alternative routes into higher education when I was younger. Wishing your daughter all the best and hope she is happy with whatever option she chooses.

Oh, and I really wouldn't recommend playing catch-up, especially if she needs a break. There is a big jump from GCSE to A levels (In terms of academic content, the jump is even greater than A levels to Uni).