Grad Schemes

[Wintom]

How many did your DC apply for?

Were they successful? How many were they offered? When did they hear about any offers?

What has their experience been like?

DC has applied for about 15, done endless numerical tests, situation judgement tests etc. This is all new to me, so just wanted to learn a little more about the process.

I think they’re still valuable in terms of identifying what you might want to do. I did a marketing internship in my second summer break ( I don’t agree with the geographic proximity excuse by pp above btw- I’m from the SW and had to just go and live in Birmingham for the summer but yes, mine was paid). What it taught me was that I definitely did not want to do marketing, especially events focused marketing. I ended up going into finance via another grad scheme. Although my internship wasn’t directly helpful I think it still gave me experience of a professional work environment and gave me an idea of what elements I enjoyed and didn’t enjoy.

Thanks @TizerorFizz much better!
I have drummed into my kids that their time and effort is of value and so they should NEVER work for free. I think most employers now understand that “unpaid internships” are usually in breach of minimum wage legislation, but I think there are still pockets where unacceptable practices still occur, mainly in publishing and fashion.

That old private school habit of auctioning internships I think is also generally recognised as unacceptable now as well - it would have to be a tone deaf company and school that still does that sort of thing.

The well connected can always find their kids jobs and internships and important early careers introductions by picking up the phone though. It’s just a fact of life. You accommodate my kid and I will accommodate yours. Not fair but life is not fair.

I take a lot of friends kids for 3-5 days work shadowing to give them exposure to and cv enhancement for the law, although I am selective and the kid has to be at law school or properly interested in law at uni stage… but I also take every single student who blind emails me from a state school background. I can do that because so few do.

My message to kids without a parental network to call in is to identify a few people in the industry they would like to work in and write to them with a very professional concise cv and say “I do not come from a background with contacts in this industry but I would be very grateful for a meeting/work experience/to be considered for an internship. I am impressed by you / your company because of [reasons] and it would be of such assistance to me in seekingvto establish my career to have the benefit of seeing you in action/working with you/your advice.”

Not all but some people will respond to that (particularly if there is a point of connection, like they are a local company to you or the person went to the same uni, or you saw them giving a talk, but there doesn’t have to be) and then the kid is building their own network of contacts.

@Delphigirl I really agree with all you say. Research shows there are regional differences with regard to getting internships and many Dc don’t travel out of home area due to cost. They don’t have money up front for rent over the summer. Therefore paid internships are important but some Dc are less likely to apply.

I think that careers people at uni should give advice on applying for internships to all Dc so they know about them and can make informed decisions. My DD was taken on by local solicitors for two weeks and at the end they paid her. She was surprised and pleased. She also decided she definitely wanted to be a barrister. Mini pupillage (7) - £0 but got pupilage with one of them. I do think an internship can inform you about what you don’t like too!

I agree- one of the most important thing about an internship is to let you know what you don’t like!! Saves a lot of heartache later!

Spot on @Delphigirl. And @Sparehair .

DH and I couldn’t provide our DC with any contacts and we don’t live near London. Didn’t stop either of them getting internships. They had to use a significant proportion of their earnings to stay in London uni accommodation in the summer. This was a good investment though as their summer placements enabled them to secure their graduate jobs. DS especially so (a competitive banking grad scheme). DD joined an environmental subsidiary of the UN (STEM) and is convinced her internships played an important part in getting the role.

I guess an important part of being successful in getting grad jobs is knowing what you want to do, identifying your strengths and then applying for jobs in a very targeted way. Internships and other paid for work experience definitely help DC to figure this out.

Agree with @ofteninaspin. My middle one's uni had a compulsory module (one hour contact time per week plus at least an hour self-study) covering just that. Zero credits but had to be passed so you were forced to engage (including keeping a diary of what you'd been doing).

That’s so fantastic of both your DC - wow! You must be really proud. I think you are absolutely right in your advice in this post.

Impressive @SandyIrving - will you share what uni? Really excellent practice I think.
my DS2s uni had a careers day just now - he went although a fresher because he said it might give him a head start in knowing what was out there for potential internships and jobs for his quite specialised degree - all the companies he spoke to said he was the only 1st year they had seen all day. He found it really interesting and met some nice people and took their cards - so if he does apply for a summer internship he can reference those conversations and drop the name.

@Delphigirl Strathclyde University Business School but think Development Program applies to other subjects too.

@Delphigirl your DS was wise to attend a careers fair in his first year. Starting to investigate what’s out there and making contacts will pay dividends further down the line.

In general though I think DCs are spun the line that grads get jobs but they don’t understand how to target jobs and the qualities you need. DH offered to introduce our DN to a sector of his old company. Just to talk through possible intern options. Almost certainly it would not be very competitive. DN hasn’t bothered. DN has a paid job for a year but it’s of dubious value given the career wanted. A few weeks as an intern as well would be better prep for the target career. However family is dead against being an intern even though it would have been paid. Clearly the experience would be worth it!

Interesting thread, good to read how your DC have approached their post uni opportunities.

I agree with you Delphigirl re not accepting unpaid internships, though this summer DD did take one. She couldn't get a spanish internship visa in time, so took the role unpaid, because she felt that the business spanish exposure was of more value to her than the pay itself. She's now able to link her published articles to her CV to supplement her uni soc ones, in what was a soft tech sector that she has no interest in long term, but she felt it was high vaue to her, especially re her spanish which I would say is C2 level.

Who knows, time will tell on application success. She's year 2 of 4 so will try to access spring taster internships ahead of applying for summer ones next year but these appear to be very competitive.

Dd did a summer internship while at LSE and was offered a grad job...she's really enjoying it. 3rd year now of doing it. Good salary and car.

LSE is probably full of Dc wanting and getting internships. They are very well placed to get them and know about them. Others areas and types of uni have students who find it more difficult. There’s no doubt that many students don’t find it easy to get jobs with top employers either. The stats clearly demonstrate that.

@TizerorFizz well I'm obviously not going to name names, but the list is quite extensive. I'm sure you would recognise many of them, even though you work in an entirely different field to mine.

That was my point though. Many firms offer internships and they are not remotely household names! So much more out there!

Start up companies offer some very interesting paid internship opportunities. DS’s girlfriend completed an engineering internship with a niche company over the summer. Although start ups may not be in the position to offer competitive grad jobs, they offer very useful experience.

Ds applied for probably 20 or so, but in batches of around 3-4 every 2/3 weeks in order of closing date. He didn't get anywhere with the first batch, but it was useful experience, he learned from the process, and he did things differently for the next batch. Then he started progressing through stages for some of them.

He kept a spreadsheet to control/monitor them, i.e. deadlines for completing each stage, links to copy & paste what he'd written on each application etc., so he could copy & paste the same answers to common questions thus saving time and being consistent, and also links to screenshots, again for reference.

Almost a full time job at times as he was juggling new applications alongside doing the later stages of earlier applications.

He was very busy over Xmas and New Year, including several recorded interview style question/answer sessions.

"Live" online interviews/group sessions were mostly in January/February. He only had one proper face to face interview.

He extensively referred back to what he'd done in earlier rounds of the process for consistency in his answers (as suggested by his Uni careers advisor in case the interviewer tried to confuse him or trip him up).

In the end he got three solid job offers, two where the process had been entirely online and the one face to face interview. He asked to go and look around the two online ones to get a feel for the physical workplace and they were very helpful and arranged a tour with no problem at all, in one it was a HR person who did the tour but in the other it was the dept head himself who'd done the final live online interview, which is the job he took. Accepted it formally around early March.

Even that late, he still got notification from other earlier applications that had gone "dark" so he assumed he'd not got through, but they invited him to next stages which he didn't pursue. So basically for some, the whole process was quick between stages but slow for others. Typically 3-6 months between starting the process and formal acceptance.

Ironically, the job he took had the quickest process - it had the latest application deadline of mid December so he applied early December, did the early stages in later December/early Jan and then online live interviews/sessions in January and offer received early February - no delays or slow progress at all with it.

He's been there 3 months and loves it. Well paid for a starter grad scheme, fantastic prospects etc. He says the guided tour clinched it as he loved the place and the staff were all friendly and welcoming.

Lots of smaller companies don’t have deadlines. They recruit when they need a grad or two. They will have training in place for professional qualifications if applicable and often offer competitive remuneration packages. They have to in order to compete. They are not start ups but not every company or consultancy is a household name. There’s plenty of alternative opportunities for the right people.

DD has a job, not a grad scheme place. They were quite happy to recruit an Oxford graduate. She's quite happy & didn't waste time she needed last year to secure her degree on dozens of assessments leading nowhere.

DS graduated in 2019 and applied for dozens of formal grad schemes as well as jobs in his field of interest. He reached the next stage in quite a few but by the Christmas still nothing.
He kept a spreadsheet and it was quite disheartening except that he knew friends were going through the same.
The CS fast stream takes forever and he was finally accepted onto that one but by then he had accepted an NHS grad scheme. A lot of them folded when lockdown started but the NHS one went ahead and took him on and he's done well on it, no regrets about turning down the civil service.

Thank you for all your responses. It is really interesting to hear the different paths and routes into work post graduation.

@Nippi Is you DS still working for the NHS? Do grad schemes automatically turn into jobs? What area of the NHS did he do a grad scheme in?

For potential solicitors the vacation schemes last 1 or 2 weeks and are in university holidays and are paid at about £450 a week. They are very competitive and lots of firms recruit future trainee solicitors from those who do well on the vac schemes. Law is a slightly different sytsem from some other grad schemes not least because for the lucky few your future law firm will pay for your post grade studies and you still have to be a trainee at the firm for 2 years after that so it can be 6 or 7 years from leaving school before you qualify.

@Xenia Its similar for engineering. No academic course to professionally qualify (although you can convert a BEng to masters equivalent via exams) but regulated CPD. Then exams or professional review. This requires an employer to offer suitable work and training. Most engineers take in excess of 3 years to qualify with a MEng. Far longer to get chartered with BEng. Law is quicker!