Oxbridge 2024 Entry Part 2

[Lightsabre]

Continuation thread (when old one is full) for those supporting dc through Oxbridge applications. All welcome as we enter the next phase.

Well @singingstones it certainly make a stressful time even more so. I'm sure we all wish the best for her and for you!
Thanks @hampsteadmum. I also remembered the interview with her college is online, so if it is after the 17th I guess she could do it from there. She furiously writing timed practise essays for her written assessment!

hampsteadmum that’s not unusual in the best schools in the independent sector - the in-house project thing/ not offering the EPQ.

My DC almost all said no to a fourth A level at their grammar school, at a time when the school very strongly advocated a fourth A level. The single exception was DS1 who read Medicine simply because he enjoyed History and wanted to continue. DD4 said no to a fourth A level and also to the EPQ which was almost heretical. Oxford clearly couldn’t care less.

My DS hasn't done the EPQ or a 4th A Level.

He's at a (good) state 6th form.

He just decided himself to focus on the best he can do with 3 A Levels and wasn't pressured either way by his college.

lifeturnsonadime the point about my DC was that even where the vast majority of their cohort at school were doing a fourth A level mine weren't - and even then, where it was so unusual, Oxford didn't care (indeed later on talking generally to my DC as students, the tutors often said it was a really bad policy for the school to make four the rule rather than the exception). DD4 was quite open about why she only wanted to do three and no EPQ: she didn't want the extra work :) Very sensible approach - fully backed her.

You've got to wonder why schools push it so much in some cases.

I guess it is more beneficial where overall UCAS points make a difference to being made an offer or not.

EPQ is far less work than a 4th A Level or even half of one. You don’t need it, but it is helpful. My son is autistic and likes structure and reading for a purpose - the EPQ provided this and gave him experience of working on a big project independently. It definitely helped to give him the research skills and confidence to enter a couple of essay competitions- which again aren’t necessary but when combined with genuine interest do give good personal statement material. Just over 30 of a cohort of 134 have completed EPQs this year. I don’t believe, after some heavy persuasion by academic head of sixth form that anyone is still doing a 4th A level unless it is further maths.

That said @singingstones your daughter’s tutor sounds useless and makes me very grateful that they know what they are doing at my son’s school even if they did make him out all 5 choices down before they would add the reference.

You've got to wonder why schools push it so much in some cases

It's very cost effective for state schools in terms of staffing and sounds good on the bumph/ independent learning etc

I've got no problem with them offering the EPQ and encouraging four in Y12, especially here, where there are AS grades. But it needs to be easy to drop either the EPQ or an A level or both, and they shouldn't be making up stuff about what Oxford do and don't expect. Or suggesting they start an EPQ in the January of Y13 🤪

The EPQ itself is fine, learning to research and write is useful. But I had a look at the WJEC spec yesterday and there's an awful lot of pointless tedium too, at least there is if you're treating it as a practice for writing uni essays.

There's always been a lot of tedious box ticking whichever exam board singingstones. Our school changed to the WJEC spec about eight years ago after another exam board returned bizarre marks. DD4 got exactly that advice from her older siblings: Oxford doesn't care about the EPQ and so much is about box ticking and relatively little about substance that it's not worth doing. The independent schools who do their own in house projects focus overwhelmingly on substance. My DC were also of the opinion that you could knock off an EPQ and get an A* easily with very little effort but even so, on a cost benefit analysis - not worthwhile. Students do have a degree of autonomy: your DD should just say no.

Others on MN disagree about the value of the EPQ, I'm aware of that :)

At DD’s state (catholic) sixth form doing an EPQ is compulsory. I didn’t particularly agree with it but given DD’s strengths lie in essay writing (she’s doing English lit, History and Philosophy & Ethics A levels) I assumed she would enjoy the challenge. In reality she has hated doing it, which is a real shame.

Because the whole year group have been made to do an EPQ the college have been stretched beyond their means and have not been able to provide the appropriate amount of lessons/guidance for it. As a result feedback hasn’t been provided in a timely manor, deadlines have been missed and it’s all been very chaotic. Leadership have spent too long chasing up students who shouldn’t have been made to do it in the first place and not enough time concentrating on the students who genuinely wanted.

If DS decides to go on to the school sixth form he will very much not want to do an EPQ. He has ADHD and really struggles with all the essay subjects. Doing an EPQ will just be an added stress for him and will be of no benefit. I will be strongly insisting that he is exempt from doing one and if college have a problem with that then he won’t be going there.

I wish she would say no, goodbye, and have offered to say no on her behalf, but her EPQ supervisor is this same dickhead tutor and she's worried about offending him when he's teaching her this year. So instead of having the argument, she's put it on the form and will either do it very quickly with the minimum of effort by end of Jan, or not at all. Having read the spec I've helped her to come up with a topic that will be super easy, I think that's probably half the battle.

No one should have to do an EPQ unless they actively want to, purely as an end in itself. DDs school generally would only allow those who'd got at least an A in English to do one, as their 'enrichment' option. They made an exception for her because they weren't running the systems&control A level she'd hoped to take , so she was allowed to do an 'artefact' EPQ - design and built a robot. The paperwork was project planning, costing, report writing, that sort of thing. Useful skills for a STEM type.

She started hers in yr 12 but it was a bit much alongside 4 A levels (she dropped one after AS) so she did the bulk of the work in the summer hols and finished off in the first term of yr 13. That timing worked out well for her.

If a kid who hates/doesn't have an aptitude for essays is compelled to do an EPQ then perhaps an 'artefact' based one (Im assuming they're still an option) might be a lot more sensible and useful.

EPQs have their uses, dc got two offers reduced because of theirs. Another kid at DC school, who missed their Oxford offer was still allowed in because they had A star in EPQ

Ahhh that’s such a shame @singingstones that your DD doesn’t feel able to say no to her tutor. He sounds like an overbearing prick. Excuse my language.

College have finally pressed the button on her application and DD has received the email from UCAS confirming her 5 choices so just playing the waiting game now. Thankfully DD will only have to do the Cambridge online entrance test if she is shortlisted for an interview.

DD did an EPQ alongside A Levels when the uptake of EPQs at her school was quite high. She remains convinced that it boosted her Oxford application and interview performance and offset a rather unusual choice of A Levels subjects for the subject she wanted to read.
Two years later, EPQs were less popular at school and DS chose not to do one. He was still successful in his Cambridge application. A strong performance in the admissions test was much more important for him than having done an EPQ.

singingstones that isn’t a terrible second choice option but your DD needs to be prepared to answer questions on her EPQ in the December interview. She’s being given atrocious advice. Agree with Rollergirl.

Crossed with oftenisaspin. The interview issue is a real one.

@ForeverbyJudyBlume That’s the first time I’ve heard of Oxford caring about an EPQ. Is interesting.

Me too! But it happened.

ForeverbyJudyBlume I would think it far more likely to be to do with a high interview score.

An A* in the EPQ is incredibly unremarkable and doesn’t measure intellectual ability but administrative competence.

They were specifically told it was because they had the A star in EPQ. But of course you know best

Because again you know everything

Nice for all the ppl out there with A ⭐️.

Well my DS who missed his grades was told exactly the same initially but it turned out that it was good that he had the A* in the EPQ but his incredibly high HAT score and interview score were the things which actually mattered.

I guess it’s fair for me to extrapolate from that. Whereas you’re simply relating hearsay. I probably therefore do have the edge :)

Thanks for the advice on EPQs, I will talk to her about maybe having to talk about it at interview. You think that might happen even though there's no mention of it in the PS? There's plenty of other stuff in there that invites questions.

It's probably best not to get into a fight with college about the EPQ this close to the deadline, but maybe she could just remove it from the form after submission.