Chinese - advice on British universities

[Chineselookingwest]

my Son would like to study at UK University. Many of his friends do but they only mix with fellow Chinese and international students and keep themselves to selves. This is not what my son wants - he wants to integrate properly with UK students. His English is fluent.

he does not want to go to a university where international students isolate. He has friends at Essex university and Guildford and Holloway London who do that. He will avoid those places. Where else should he avoid please.

thank you for all replies. We are from Shanghai. So son says wants v different experience in UK and not big busy city like home so not London, Birmingham or Manchester. Research so far for his degree he likes Bath, Warwick, Lancaster, Exeter and Nottingham. I am positive about his time in UK after responses here.

Someone said we should not book most expensive accommodation for son. We thought we will do as we can do it and only small percentage more when we paying so much fees. But if that is where all Chinese students book, we will not. Should son go to cheapest to mix best with UK?

what about Essex Univ ?
they do that course.
and have v good reputation in such subjects.
in a small town, (ancient roman settlement),
near enough to seaside attractions,
and easy to get into London by rail for events etc.
suggest a mid-range accomm by price, in order to be with a cross section of students.
good luck.
he sounds a well brought up and well rounded young man.

https://www.essex.ac.uk/courses/ug01112/1/ba-economics-with-a-modern-language?startdate=2023/24

@alexdgr8 this is very good looking course. Thank you. But as I posted, son has friends at Essex who do not integrate. It not good place for that. The university has a lot more (by many kilometres) Chinese and international students than other Uk universities.

@alexdgr8 i do not intend to be rude and thank you for your suggestion. Mid-range accommodation is your idea and good compromise. My husband has a big fortune and wants my son to have the best but my son just wants to fit in with UK students. I want him to live on normal student budget and not stand out and learn value of money

Hi there, former Chinese (Singaporean) student in the UK here.

Just chiming in to provide another perspective. I also don't know if it's a good idea to pick a uni with few international students tbh. A few of your son's preferred unis in "quieter" and "nicer" areas are infamous for not being very inclusive of Asians.

Generally, at more cosmopolitan unis (in big cities) with lots of international students, students tend to be loads more open-minded and willing to hang out with Chinese people. Contrary to what's being said on this thread, the average Singaporean at UCL, LSE, Imperial for example has far more international/British friends than at those unis. They won't be in each other's "core" friend groups but that's not really down to the Asians... Especially as freshers, many British people will be hell bent on creating their picture perfect – don't know what the British equivalent of "all American" is but that would apply as a descriptor here – friend group to last them for life.

Within the uni itself, I wouldn't necessarily advise him to steer clear of China Soc and other Chinese students. It was a hard transition for me coming from an English speaking country, and I imagine it will be worse for your son. For example, ching chong and slit-eyed jokes on the street, or being subtly yet obviously treated badly because of your face or accent – these things are far easier to brush off with a support system of people who understand (rather than have to be convinced) what you go through :)

I'm belabouring the point, but my advice would be that it's not black or white! The most successfully integrated international students move about in diverse social circles comprising students of their own nationality, as well as other international students and British students. I have many treasured friends of all nationalities (including my own), and that diversity was crucial for me personally.

“For example, ching chong and slit-eyed jokes on the street, or being subtly yet obviously treated badly because of your face or accent – these things are far easier to brush off with a support system of people who understand (rather than have to be convinced) what you go through :) “

@intlstudent thank you for reply. Bit this attitude not in UK now in 2023? Yes last century - my husband experienced in 1990 - but not now?

You'd be very surprised if you think it doesn't still happen now. Of course it does.

As PP said, it's not black and white. You shouldn't avoid universities because of their high population of Chinese students... your son may think one way now, but when he's living alone miles away from home, he might change his mind and gravitate towards this group of people from the same culture for support and friendship.

I would say his friendship group is pretty much up to him, if he wants to make more 'international' friends it is up to him to seek them out.

Just to let you know, OP, some university campuses (a couple of the ones you mentioned) are not actually in the town/city of their name, but quite some distance away. This can give them a lovely campus feeling, but is also very isolating when you actually want to go anywhere for food/fun/travel.

(Having said that, perhaps it is now not as isolating when everybody has Uber at their fingertips and can afford to pay for it).

From personal experience having visited there for work numerous times, Nottingham (great location in the suburbs BTW) has many many Asian/East Asian/SE Asian students. But as others have said, that's not a bad thing at all, it can be a nice way to slide into a new country to have some familiar energy around you to ease the culture shock.

Also I had a similar experience to @intlstudent when I first arrived in the 90s, I was eager to make friends with people from everywhere and especially get to know British culture - turned out that in the first flush of freedom from home, almost all my hall-mates/course-mates wanted to drink insane amounts of alcohol and dodge lectures. I couldn't have done that even if I wanted to (can't metabolise alcohol and needed to actually do well in my degree because of the insane fees). After the first couple of terms, everybody calmed down and I made some lifelong friends.

So I would echo what everybody has said - what your son gets out of his university experience is very much up to him.

My DD graduated a couple of years ago. She’s white British, but her “friendships for life” social group from university is about 50:50 British and East Asian, with the Asian people being from China, Malaysia and Singapore. There were plenty of international students who didn’t mix beyond their own nationalities, but her friends were all (obviously) keen to do so. This was at Cambridge, so was helped by the fact that they were all in the same college. I think the key thing was that they lived and ate together in the first year, so had time to get to know each other through seeing each other often. I think that if your son is making an effort to socialise beyond his own National group he will find it possibility would be to choose mid-priced catered accommodation for the first year, even if your son is an excellent cook, because then he will be mixing with lots of other students every day in a large dining hall, whereas in a self catered small flat you only meet the people you live with, unless you invite others in. But he might think the catered food is a problem and prefer to cook his own food!

OP,

Sadly I also think that@intlstudent has a good point. Prejudice never really dies, and the culture shock will be greater than your DS anticipates. The ideal would be for him to be comfortable in both Eastern and Western friendship groups.

I also agree that mid level accommodation would be best. He won’t be needing to watch his pennies and it will be nice for him to meet peers who also aren’t too focused on budgeting.

PS Chinese students in the UK look out for each other. Why would your DS not want to be part of that? He can also have plenty of Western friends.

There can be a problem. But it can be overcome. All groups of students will have some who are insular and only want to hand around friends from their own background. And others who are outgoing and happy to make friends with those from different backgrounds.

Many years ago I went to the LSE as did the first group of Chinese students allowed to study in the UK. Years later I got to know a lovely Chinese woman who was working for her Government and who had been part of that group. We would have been in the same hall, and I said how we had envied their amazing cooking on the two electric rings. She said we should have asked and they would have been delighted to share....but at 18 we never thought of it. Equally they were amazed at the choice on the Hall's one TV set, dominated by football and soaps when we could have been watching news, current affairs and debates. Something they did not have at home and which we did not seem to value. I said they should have asked ..though perhaps not during Match of the Day. No one asked, and no one spoke. We all lost.

A school friend of DDs from mainland China but with about 5 years in UK boarding schools had issues at UCL as he was considered neither British or Chinese. However he was very quiet, which was fine at school where he mixed with other similarly quiet science types, but he needed to make more effort at University. (In fact he continued to hang out with friends from school - so could be accused on being a "public school" type.)

DS went to LSE, and had a large number of Chinese friends and indeed friends from elsewhere. There is a continuum. Plenty from mainland China, who are then divided on their confidence in spoken English, overseas Chinese again perhaps divided into those from Chinese communities in their own countries and those who went to international schools, and then British born Chinese. So one of his friends chose LSE after coming from a small village in Wales where his was the only ethnic minority family. Another had been to Winchester. Yet another was from mainland China, with parents who were academics and who were strongly encouraging/pushing him to pursue an academic career in the West, another was Taiwanese but had gone to a British international school in Thailand, whilst the weekly subject social was organised by a girl from Hong Kong.

He got to know everyone partly through societies. Computer gaming and AnimeManga are pretty international, so group trips to Comecon and strange nights in Camden pubs watching streams of people on the other side of the world play computer games, with trips to China town after. (Tables divided into those who read Chinese so could read the special Chinese menu and the others.) But also through study. If you are very into your subject that is your common ground and it does not matter where you come from. A third was that friends from one of the societies used to invite him to eat with them (note example above) in the group meals they cooked in one of their flats. A room came vacant in that flat, and he was invited to take it.

DS and an LSE friend originally from Hong Kong were back recently as part of their PhD research (there are several LSE grads on his PhD programme. Those I know include one British Born South East Asian, one Dubai born South Asian, and the one from Hong Kong - the four of them being pretty representative of the LSE.) They were talking about the agony of one of their Masters courses where they got to choose an article each week to analyse. Two Chinese students were less confident in their English so always chose articles effectively made up of formulae. Agony for the others. I have similarly heard of problems at Imperial where Chinese students ask questions to Chinese teaching assistants in Mandarin, leaving the others bewildered. That said it was the French who were reputed to be the most cliquey, seeing London as some obscure French city a train ride from home. (This was pre Brexit when the French paid home fees and London was, in terms of the number of French residents, something like the eight largest French city.)

I would recommend somewhere very international. Everyone is in then in the same boat, and plenty will have had pretty international upbringings. A Chinese student is effectively no different to a British student. You either reach out and mix and are sensitive to other's needs, or you stick to your own. BC (before children) I had an international career and regularly bumped into LSE grads. Ditto DS is now studying in the US and has friends at every major campus there with regular meet ups in different places.

And for anyone who has not visited ChinaTown recently, it has been transformed by the wave of Chinese/East Asian students and the popularity of East Asia culture. Its cool to hang out in a bubble tea shop or buy Korean ice cream or Taiwanese dumplings.

Uea mixes overseas and home students in first year accommodation and is a small city. Lots of clubs on offer to meet different people. There are other Chinese students so best of both

Another reason to consider London is that other Universities empty out during vacations, whereas London campus' and libraries are bustling from both London based students and overseas students. Though it seems obvious to fly home, there are often important exams after short Christmas and Easter vacations and so in later years can make sense to stay in the UK and study. A Korean school friend of DS found himself alone in Cambridge, with DS thinking he would have been happier overall had he chosen to study in a more international London. (DS went to Korea to visit him, and was really looked after as his friend had often stayed with us, but the icing on the cake was them meeting up with an LSE friend who, unbeknownst to DS, had a father who was seriously senior in Samsung. ViP rooms in trendy clubs in Gangnam etc.)

The son of a Malay friend found the same. He was at Kings and at Christmas isolated Malays from around the country would descend on him to escape isolation in places like Bath.

I have been an international student and worked with international students around the world.

I doubt you will find any university in the UK that doesn’t have a large population of Chinese students, this is particularly accentuated in Business courses and postgraduate degrees.

Some international students integrate well with other students, some limit their interactions to their own culture group. Simply put, when you are in a new environment, whatever culture you are from, you tend to gravitate towards people who you share interests/background/communication styles with and, on arrival, that is easier to find with people from your own country, so my advice would be to make it clear to your child that the only way to integrate with the rest of the university is to get out of his comfort zone from time to time and join student societies, activities and courses that are not normally favoured by his/her own culture group.

May I ask you what he wants to study?

I did a postgrad degree mentioned on here where the cohort was very dominated by Chinese students. They very much kept to themselves, but as a mature student I had little in common with the party goers so I hung around with the Chinese group. There was only one girl that actively mixed with others (she was a clubber) and the others felt she was very brazen 😬.
I will say they found university life to be quite the culture shock. Their purpose was very much to study and when free maybe do a bit of sightseeing. They were horrified (but trying to be very diplomatic!) about the drinking culture and their flatmates bringing strange boys/girls home overnight and having "loud relations". They wanted to change accommodation so they could be together, it was very much a safety in numbers thing.

Economics with Spanish sounds interesting and will probably be one of the smaller Economics degree programmes. It may attract fewer Asian students (I am not sure about this), so in his core group your DS should have good opportunities to meet Western students. But I agree that joining societies is likely to be the real key to getting to know them.

Also, as @Needmoresleep said, Chinese food is a brilliant invitation to the culture. If your DS can cook and is willing to share some of your delicious cuisine with others in his residence hall I would think that a great way to make friends. It certainly would have attracted me, and then I would have wanted some cookery lessons. (Everyone should take turns contributing.).

My advice would be pick a cheaper halls of residence. Ime international students have more money and pick the most expensive accommodation

Oh that sounds lovely about your daughter. Your suggestion is great! One of my main friend groups was from living and eating together in first year too. In fact, I liked one of the Brits in it so much that I married them :)

That's the other thing though, if slightly country-specific – Oxbridge is known for being very Singaporean. Singaporean state schools send the most people to Oxbridge in the world, more than any British private school. So Singaporeans at Oxbridge (most of whom come from the same state schools - usually Raffles or Hwachong) often feel really at home, and confident enough to socialise outside of their nationality. Whereas if you were the only Asian in the rural outback or something, it might work out brilliantly with nary a whisper of homesickness, or it might be quite isolating even if you were desperate to mingle.

Re: your daughter's friends, they still would've stayed connected to other Singaporeans – even flying back and forth together at term breaks/time – because as mentioned a lot are good friends from way back, big firms network and recruit through the Singapore Society, and virtually all return back home before their mid-30s so their children can attend state school back home. So again, really sounding like a broken record here, but a healthy mix is always best.

Though be careful. Asian students often have a different quite sheltered upbringing. I am told that the Singapore government now provide housekeeping training for their scholarship students as so many grew up with servants. We know one Thai girl who left Birmingham because in her eyes her fellow students lived like and behaved like pigs. I would suggest finding a hall with a good number of international student. Step by step integration rather than all out immersion.

I meant to quote Quintanaroo.

Warwick would be a good choice as would be a good mix of UK / non UK students, great halls, can decide to live out with friends in Leamington Spa after 1st year and if wanting to cook up a feast, can take a train up to the Chinese quarter in Birmingham from Coventry to get all the right ingredients to do so. Sporty and fun.

@Needmoresleep I think that sounds like a bit of an exaggerated rumour :) we have to do housework in schools on a rota from a young age, and the boys especially would have just emerged from 2+ years of getting knee deep scrubbing shit from barracks toilets, doing military level shoe shining and laundry, cooking industrial sized servings, etc

@Needmoresleep "The son of a Malay friend found the same. He was at Kings and at Christmas isolated Malays from around the country would descend on him to escape isolation in places like Bath." This made me chuckle, so true! I had friends in London whose flat occupancy rates were reaching illegal overcrowding levels at Christmas time