Arabic +\- Middle Eastern Studies

[Delphigirl]

Hi does anyone know anything about undergraduate Arabic/MES? My daughter (currently Y12/L6) is thinking about this for uni. She is doing Spanish Geog and economics at A level but also an Arabic club (3hrs/week) so she can read and is learning to write and speak Modern Standard Arabic for beginners level. She loves it.

So I would love to know anything about various uni departments at the moment. She doesn’t want to be in zlondon so SOAS is out. She doesn’t think she wants oxbridge. She has been to Edinburgh and St Andrews for a look and liked both, she is going to look at Exeter and maybe Manchester, also McGill in Canada.
She wants to get a high level of language acquisition, not keen on much literature analysis, likes the social science aspects of MES, not really interested in Islam as a religion. She would like the possibility of a choice of dialects, and perhaps of some Farsi teaching on the side. She has 8s and 9s at gcse and will get predicted all As and Astars. What are the best departments currently, and why?
Thanks

Hi @Stellarbean , welcome to our happy band of parents of arabists!
I’m not sure how your son feels about London, but SOAS is the obvious one missing from your list. @ealingwestmum ’s DD is doing Arabic and Spanish at trinity college Dublin, just to throw that in there but if Scotland is out I suspect so is ROI!

I also don’t think of Warwick as a uni to go to if you want seriously to study Arabic, as their Arabic is more of an add-on. What I mean by that is that they do not offer an Arabic/Arabic and ME studies degree and their offering is simply language teaching as an option attached to another 1 or 2 European languages. If you look at their website they only offer Arabic at beginner and intermediate level (every other uni mentioned will get you to Advanced level by year 3 of 4) and although they offer culture/area studies and translation modules in some languages, they don’t offer them in Arabic. So if your son really wants to study Spanish but would like to pick up a bit of Arabic to maximum intermediate level, that might be fine. But if he decides he loves Arabic and wants to take it further, he will be really hamstrung by being at Warwick. i would also be a bit concerned that with budget problems etc unis are cutting less popular humanities subjects and if I was wielding an axe at Warwick the Arabic teaching might be an easy one to go.

So I think Exeter, Durham, Leeds, SOAS and oxbridge are your choices in the UK. If going down the Oxbridge route I would avoid Cambridge and look at Oxford.

Hope that helps!

Great combo @Stellarbean , best of luck on the decision making, nothing more to add to @Delphigirl who is going to the most current on options detail. DD wasted one on applying for Bristol, post offer finding out it was more a language suite option only. 3 years on even that seems to have been removed, so definitely worth your son digging more with faculties direct if in doubt.

@Delphigirlthank you for the advice. When I looked at SOAS I couldn’t see an option to combine with Spanish; I’ll take a look again. For his personal development I am keen for him to move out of London since this is where we live.

I think Dublin would likely be too far for him. Not sure why he is against Manchester - but I think he heard from older friends that student accommodation is a real problem and that has put him off.

Really interesting what you say about Warwick and that is very good advice. Did you/ your DD look at both Oxford and Cambridge - is that why you are saying to avoid Cambridge?

oh you may be right about SOAS and Spanish, I didn’t check I’m afraid.

DD wouldn’t look at oxford as we live here. She reluctantly looked at Cambridge but we found the department to be incredibly depressing, hardly any Arabic academic staff, main focus of dept is Chinese and Japanese, little to no area studies, and just rather moribund. I’m sure the language teaching is very good but there was not the vibrant community that we saw at Exeter and Edinburgh in particular. The very few number of staff was reflected in the limited options available to students. Since then we have heard about the toxicity of the department (see varsity articles linked by @Marisquita above) which may be right or may be exaggerated but certainly the drop out rate seems very high.

Yes I think there may be a problem with SOAS and Spanish. DD recently went to a careers fair and met a SOAS person - she said she asked whether if she did Arabic there she could also keep up her French. The answer was no, not at SOAS, but she could sign up for language classes at UCL which wouldn’t count towards a degree.

…but actually it does look as though if you are at the University of London you can take credit-bearing language courses at UCL:

www.ucl.ac.uk/languages-international-education/language-courses/modules

Still, much better I think to find a course where the target languages are fully integrated, including in terms of the year abroad.

Nice to see this thread still lively. All of us working in Arab, Islamic and Middle East Studies have an interest in parents thinking so carefully about all of the advantages of study across these areas.

With regard to getting a sense as to what's going on across the different universities can I recommend that you (and, perhaps especially, your young people) follow each department "on the socials"? I know there's a bit of a preference for different forms of social media across institutions, but following on places like Instagram, X or TikTok can often now give a much better sense about the "feel" of a place than, for example, web pages.

I think that’s excellent advice @ExeterWilliam . Dd was v tempted by an Exeter AMES quiz the other day until she remembered she doesn’t start there until September 🤣 but I agree they do give a good idea about what’s going on.

Sorry to jump into this thread, but with a prospective Cambridge AMES applicant, the discussion and article are really concerning.

Will feed this back to DC, but (appreciating this might not be the thread for this question) does anyone know whether a student doing a European language too could feasibly change schools to MML, or is it very much AMES or out?

Hello @MeetingChatter . It was 2022 and my DD was rejected post interviews, but yes, I believe back then, it was possible to amend course to MML, as an ex school student in previous year had done just that after her first year at C.

Thank you @ExeterWilliam that is really great advice. I will be at Exeter in May with other DS but might persuade him to pop in to your dept. Otherwise we will bring Y11 DS to the next open day in the autumn.

I have to say all the course are so different across institutions that it isn’t an easy application like Physics or Maths.

@MeetingChatter Yes it is possible at Cambridge to transfer to MMLL, and that is what the young man I met last week had done.

@Stellarbean I really recommend visiting IAIS at Exeter; that’s exactly what my DD did early in her thought process and it was so helpful. It’s also well worth them seeing that what is in some universities a marginal subject housed in something akin to a broom cupboard (!) has really excellent facilities and the feel of a “jewel in the crown” at Exeter. Though by no means the only jewel in Exeter’s crown, obviously!

Thanks @ealingwestmumand @Marisquita

I will be strongly encouraging DC to consider carefully, and I don’t think it’s the best idea starting one course with an exit route already in mind, but really good to have an idea of options in practice since DC has a strong mind of their own and is still v keen on applying.

@ExeterWilliam Would it be OK for me to PM you with a question re choosing between the various IAIS courses at Exeter?

As this popped into my feed, a quick message to all those with DC about to enter their first years of ME study after summer (from memory, @Delphigirl and a one or two others?), best of luck! Also for those commencing their YA, enjoy. Mine is heading back in less than 4 weeks and has been blown away with the whole experience, from an academic, exploring the wider region perspective and making global friendships.

Many of you have backgrounds via your own/relatives who have experienced the value of such a programme; access to the region, the opportunities, the wide variety of connections etc. I just wanted to anecdotally add as a parent without this linkage, it seems this is still the case from my DD's wide international cohort.

DD will not be short of a contact base to draw upon for her Capstone project as she enters her final year of study. People are genuinely pleased and invested in helping the students to succeed with their programmes of study, possibly more so now given the current challenging climate.

Ah that’s such a lovely update @ealingwestmum and I’m so pleased your dd has had such a wonderful experience this year. My DD is v excited about starting at Exeter in the autumn. It will be fascinating to see all what all of them do and how they get on - I hope we all continue to update on this thread!

@ealingwestmum can you remind us where she went if you don't mind? DD1 off to Cairo in August and is very excited. Has had various meets throughout this year with some of the 4th years who have been and it sounds like such an experience.

Hello again @mizu, that has come around really quickly, mine met up with a last semester pal from Edinburgh just yesterday, just moved to Granada.

So she's given me a real dump of info, I'm sorry if it duplicates with what your DD has already from Y4s, mine was at AUC, am assuming your DD will be at the language school downtown?

Places to visit:
Luxor/Aswan - takes some organising but well worth it; Valley of the Kings, Luxor temple, Karnak etc. Aswan much more relaxed vibe, stunning, can go on boats around the isalnds and see different parts of Nubian culture. A few hours away is Abu Simbel Temple. Her crack of dawn balloon trip unfortunately got pulled due to bad weather.

Siwa Desert Oasis - salt lakes, temples, if going, do a tour with driver overnight.

Bahariya Oasis (Black and White desert), she stayed overnight in the desert with a guide.

Dahab - small coastal beach town.

Hurghada - coach one way, flew back. Lots of water activities, deep sea diving, aside from the tragic boat incident in the winter, this was a fantastic experience but do check operators carefully.

Alexandria - her least favourite, was underwhelmed. Souks and catacombs were great as is the seafood but the library is not like the original.

In Cairo itself, she could just go on. Her particular favourites are Coptic Cairo, Zamalek (there's a large flea market every month), cave church, Khan al kahlili souk, Maadi district for brunch/restaurants/boutique shops. She lived in New Cairo which is developing very fast, but spent most of her time between there and downtown, ubers are very reasonable (and safe (in her opinion), no incidents across her 5 months for her or the others).

She didn't go to Suez Canal but some did, I think she was avoiding nearing borders of conflict. Couple of dodgy check point/ad hoc law stops, mainly to verify passengers. It was always the local boys from neighbouring countries like Lebanon, Sudan, Syria etc that took the brunt of the questioning. Egyptian friends in the group, boys again were stopped regularly at tourist points. Having a Student ID on you at all times was DD's top tip, her AUC card seemingly held lots of perceived privilege.

I know your daughter's language will be quite advanced vs mine; it was lovely to see usage progress across all standards improve and be used across the region, it really is welcomed and encouraged by the local community. It was also essential for navigating the transport across Cairo as walking anywhere is nigh on impossible due to the traffic/one way city system. My husband and I got into wrong cars twice due to not understanding the Arabic number plates and the Uber app!

Any other questions, just ask. Hope she has a fabulous time!

@ealingwestmumthanks so much - good for me to know too. We will be visiting -she’s there August til the following June and at the AUC. I remember your daughter was doing another subject too? Spanish?

I think she’ll be living half the time downtown and half in new Cairo but I may have made that up! Something like that.

Tine is really flying, isn’t it?

Any news from anyone else re Exeter?

You remembered correctly re Spanish @mizu, even better splitting semesters between the 2 locations. DD said AUC was a fantastic experience, the teaching, general organisation, prompt marking etc. I’m sure your DD already knows to do this, to sign up to the international services early to get involved with the wider network.

Very exciting times for you all.

@ealingwestmum hope you don’t mind my asking about jabs. Did your DD get any for Cairo?

Hello @mizu, no worries, yes she got the full works. Her surgery gave them to her FOC, some students were made to pay via private vaccination travel clinics.

Possibly OTT but my husband and I did too even for a long weekend’s visit. Still did not stop me getting the usual Egypt tummy though!

Thanks so much, she needs to make an appointment at the GP to get started then!