Finance degree?

[herewegoagainmymy]

Anyone got a DS doing Finance? DS is mathematical (doing Maths A level) but really doesn’t want to study Maths. He’s really interested in investing (has a portfolio with his saved birthday money!) and how markets work/crypto etc… He’s also quite interested in psychology and Far Eastern culture/music. I think Accountancy would be boring for him.

Not sure on grades yet but I’d say aspirational would be AAB.

Any experience /thoughts? Thanks.

Cross post, sorry again

Our Portfolio Adviser used to work for the Private Banking arm of our high street bank. That’s also a way in. They closed their private banking services and he is now employed by a big investment company which manages our portfolio. These jobs are based in different locations and not all in the SE. His clients are all the former Private Banking clients.

No worries @poetryandwine I appreciate that. Thank you! I really don’t know what he’ll want to do afterwards. He’s only just 17 so plenty of time. He’s had a shit time with Covid and other stuff too so we’re just trying to focus on positive things and the near future. ❤️

If he wants to get into investment banking in a front office role the university he goes to is more important than the subject (choose something he will do well in), think top 10. The training programme you go on when you join an IB grad scheme will teach you everything you need to get started. While he is at uni he should get involved in the finance, investment etc societies. A summer internship in financial services is very helpful, half the gad scheme roles go to the summer interns. If he does want a finance degree they are typically more common at Masters level. He could also complete a summer internship between his ug and pg if thats the route he chooses. He should be aware it is a very demanding career and requires long hours. Accountancy is a lot less demanding and easier to get into. Or he could look at back office, like operations which is not as competitive or hard. Areas like asset management, private wealth and risk or compliance are also not as difficult as corporate finance or equity/debt market roles.

I would encourage him to look at universities with a placement year.

Thanks! Yes a placement year sounds a good option.

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea thanks but I’m not sure where the ib idea came from. I’ve said several times that I’m not sure it’s his thing. We certainly won’t be pushing him down that route. I also said in my OP that I don’t think accountancy would be very interesting as a degree. He can always choose to do that later if he wishes.

Ah sorry I didnt read all the posts, just the first where you mentioned investment. If hes not interested in IB or accountancy but is in investing generally, asset management or private wealth might be good areas to look into. Much better work/life than ib but still that investment focus. You do need good relationship management skills, but his interest in far eastern cultures could be tied in with investing in those professions. UCL offers several cryto/blockchain focused undergrad courses too if thats more his area of interest.

I have read all the thread and won't mention IB @herewegoagainmymy, I promise!

I think it is worth your son exploring a little more what it is about investment that drives his interest. It could be the 'macro' aspect (eg impact of rising inflation on different asset classes) or it could be the 'micro' (eg this company's shares are doing well because it manages its gross margins and ROCE)

A leaning towards the 'micro' could open up exploration of business management degrees; a leaning towards the 'macro' could open up exploration of 'economics and...' degrees. Yes, economics can be very mathematical (LSE, Warwick etc) and very theoretical in many universities but courses like Business Economics or Economics, Politics and International Relations can often comprise more 'real world' and quite varied modules.

It sounds like your DS has a broad range of interests so a degree with a broader remit than a potentially narrower and quite technically focused finance degree might suit and means he keeps options open, interests alive and a greater likelihood of securing a good classification.

In Y12 one of my DC initially had quite black and white views about what particular degrees 'would be like'. I got them to look at Lancaster's course catalogue because its modular approach means there are quite a lot of 'Main subject with...' type degrees and a good explanation of what modules actually cover.

This does not mean I am pushing Lancaster specifically but I found it a good way to teach my DC that there is no substitute for diving into uni websites and realising that joint and other combination courses exist and that degrees with the same label at two different universities can be structured very differently in practice.

Strathclyde. ABB but probably a little higher for 2nd year entry. Lots of Finance+ options. Well regarded for accountancy and finance. Good options for internships nearby.

I'd be wary of a "Maths with....." degree for someone who isn't fully committed/able re Maths. You'd be doing the same high level of Maths in the modules as the wholly Maths students, and some of the Maths modules would be compulsory, so a student who wasn't at the top of their game in Maths (ability AND interest) could well struggle. It's not the "lite" version of Maths that some people may wrongly think it is. It's the same standard, but obviously just less of it as there are fewer Maths modules in a combined "Maths with...." degree course.

When we were doing the Uni visits with DS, this very fact came up in a few conversations at different Unis when DS said that whilst he was good at Maths (A* at A level) he didn't "love" it - he was pretty abruptly told that he should steer away from any degree with "Maths" in the name as it would be "hard Maths" heavy and students who don't "live and breath it" usually struggle with the Maths modules. It was also pointed out that the kind of "Maths" done in Maths modules really isn't the same kind of Maths required in Economics, finance, accounting degrees etc so there's very little "overlap".

Maybe an Economics BA instead of BSc & one with lots of optional modules?

Just in case he might be interested in studying to be an accountant, those with accountancy/finance degrees have much lower pass rates in the professional exams.

Just in case anyone following this thread is interested in an accountancy degree, that may have been the case in the 1970s or 80s, but is absolutely untrue today. The Big 4 recruit heavily from universities such as Bath, LSE, Warwick & Southampton with an excellent reputation for accounting degrees. They consistently achieve first time passes with a whole stack of exemptions thrown in for good measure.

If AAA is out of his reach it might be worth him looking at more vocational Finance degrees offered by places like Bournemouth U. The trick might be to look at towns/cities that host significant banking back office operations. Poole/Bournemouth has JP Morgan, Barclays, Nationwide etc, whereas others are in Yorkshire and elsewhere. A finance degree with a year in industry may not be the giddy heights of investment banking but can be a useful foot in the door. And banks will often work closely with local universities to ensure there is a supply of local graduates with the right skill set. One of DH’s more senior based colleagues went to Bournemouth U followed by Southampton Solent for Masters, and worked his way up from Dorset to London. Equally I met someone with a good job in the City who had made a last minute decision to study Finance at her local university in Yorkshire. Again good employment opportunities locally then promotion to the London office and a further upwards trajectory.

@Needmoresleep thanks. Everyone is obsessed with IB/London on this thread 😂. He could definitely get AA on a good day, not sure about his third one (B/C) That will get him in somewhere decent. Maths would get one of the As.

@Badbadbunny Totally agree and that’s why he’s not doing Maths joint honours- see my OP!

Yes or maybe joint honours. I’ll have a look. Thanks.

@PerpetualOptimist haha re. IB. Don’t I’ve else got in after you!

Your post is really helpful thank you. I studied Maths with Economics myself. I will speak to him and see if we can tease out a bit more detail.

An A in maths is good and certainly good enough for most BSc’s. A ability to manipulate numbers is a saleable skill, including when it comes to analysing investment performance. The aim is the foot in the door.

He might look beyond standard degrees. How about Behavioural Economics, which mixes psychology with economics (offered by Essex and presumably elsewhere). I also had a quick look at Exeter as a friend of DDs was good at maths but struggled to get the grades he needed and went to their Penryn campus (degree certificate still says U of Exeter), and is now doing some sort of financial analysis role for a financial institution. The degree he did does not seem to be offered now, though who can tell given the number of iPad freezing pop ups the Exeter site has. Exeter has degrees in Maths with Finance, DataScience etc, more AAB than AAA. Or BSc Business at Penryn at ABB. A good look around might help clarify his interest.

Actually I seem to be saying something similar to badbadbunny.

Sorry I meant perpetual optimist.

Though badbadbunny touches on another important point. Degree level maths is different from A level. Some find it much harder. Whilst others, including both my DC have found applied maths at University, when related to something that interests them, more interesting therefore easier.

A course that allows for a good range of choices and options for second and third years, as interests develop can be useful.

The University of Hertfordshire offers BSc Financial Mathematics? ABB / BBB (128/120 tariff points) typical offer, either minimum B in Maths.

Economics degrees can be pretty wide and include anything from politics to accounting to psychology. Sometimes the choices that you make end up changing the name of the degree. I'm a bit out of touch but i remember BA econ at Manchester covering a huge array of subjects.

I don't think of Economics as a hard degree either - i think outside of maths/physics/philosophy - any maths in a degree is likely to be around a level standard at most

The Manchester uni BSc is very mathematics based. BAecon has wider options. I wonder how employers view them?

Industrial economics

Would he be interested in being an Independent Financial Adviser? He wouldn't have to have a degree but I think it helps, then some more studies while working. It seems very flexible with good opportunities for self employment. If he's interested in investment it sounds appropriate.

The business school at Reading is Henley Management College which has an excellent reputation in the business world.