How many GCSEs needed for Oxbridge/ Russell Group Universities?

[2020again]

Current debate at my son's academic school about the ideal number of GCSEs students should take –some students are taking 8 GCSEs and others taking 11, and a couple 12!

Another parent has said to me that all universities, even Oxbridge, only look at the first 7 GCSE results and so even doing say 9 and getting slightly lower grades in some is a false move and better to concentrate on getting top grades in 7. Is that true? Even for the Russell group? Please can someone shed some light on what is actually looked at? Thanks very much.

DS1 has just had multiple offers from RG uni's with nine (very good) GCSE grades. NO MFL.

An Oxbridge applicant should take the standard number of GCSEs taken at their school although taking a smaller number is fine if there are good reasons for it (such as illness).

Schools are taking fewer GCSEs now and so comparisons with pre 2018 GCSE applicants is pointless. Pre 2018, an able applicant could far more easily cover the curriculum of say twelve GCSEs and might well opt to in order to prevent boredom and have a wider educational spread. The new specs are far more demanding, so twelve would be a serious push even for the very able, purely in terms of time.

Thank you so much @jeanne16 and @HuaShan for information about the GCSES (especially about eg the friend's grades). So are the MAT tests done before applying? When do they have to be done? For Cambridge is the entrance exam in addition to the MAT and are the MAT or entrance exams similar to eg STEP papers?

I would hope that any sensible parent/ school would put the brakes on now, with the new specs and say twelve is too many - on the grounds that there would be little time for the important non school things in life.

Cambridge statement posted by PP seemed more promising for DC .

MAT is the Maths admission test. Oxford aptitude rests are taken in October of Y12. Each subject has their own admissions test. STEP is taken at the same time as A levels. Both the Oxford and Cambridge websites will give lots of information regarding aptitude tests or written work.

Sorry October of Year 13!

My DS got 8 GCSEs. 6 were top grades (all Maths/Science) and he also got an A (English) and a B (Religious Studies). All A* at A-level (covid ones, but he was on course for those grades). He’s now at Cambridge studying engineering. (He’s finding it extremely hard but that’s another story.)

You don’t need a modern language for any degree course nowadays — except modern languages (and even then, not necessarily!)

DD got 10 GCSEs all top grades including three separate sciences, and a MFL and AAA at A Level (2018) and is reading biosciences at Oxford. Her GCSE profile is typical for students on her course.
DS has 10 near-identical GCSE grades (except for an 8 in English Lit) and got AAA* at A Level (2020) and is at Cambridge.

DS’s A level grades should read 3A*.

The medical schools that currently score GCSEs for invitations for interview score the top 9.
So students would be at a disadvantage of they had done fewer than that.
9/10 is a good number (maths/English X2/science X3/mfl takes up 7 after all).
Older child did 11 and school policy changes to 10 after that which I was Very glad about. 10 has felt a good number for younger child.

DCs school do 14 GCSEs which is absolutely ridiculous. Eldest DD is bright enough and secured all A*/A grades but youngest DD, currently in year 11, is struggling with all the assessments. It was especially difficult to juggle 14 subjects during the lockdowns as she isn't particularly interested in many of them!

If it was a choice I would suggest that 10 GCSEs is plenty.

With the 1-9 grades surely no one does 14? Barmy! 9 or 10 if doing separate sciences is perfect.

I actually think doing all subjects through year 9 is fine then drop to 9 or 10 in y10. I think not doing History or Geography leaves big gaps in education as does not doing a MFL. I also think the brightest children can do sciences and other subjects and it’s a shame to specialise too early. I know the universities don’t care but knowledge should be varied and not narrowed down too early.

7 is two low. I recommend doing these and then adding one softer option
English lit
English lang
Maths
History
Geography
a modern foreign language eg German or French (or two if you prefer)
2 or 3 sciences

That takes you to 8 or 9. My children then added in most cases music. Others do RE or drama or art.

Dd1 and Dd2 took 10 and 11 GCSEs respectively.
When I was at school most pupils did 8 or 9 GCSEs. The only pupils who did ten were those who were taking an external language exam.
I think the maximum should be nine GCSES

Ds1 did 12 in 2018 and ds2 is doing 11 this year, I felt 12 was too much although ds1 was quite able and got all 8/9, ds2 is much less organised and I considered at the beginning of y11 asking school if he could drop 1 or 2( FM of music) but after talking to ds1 changed my mind.
His view was that while there was no real need or benefit in your GCSE’s doing so many, when it got to A level it was an advantage because while the level of work got harder the quantity was similar if not slightly less, so the jump to A level was only about the depth of work not the amount. He felt it made the transition easier. So I didn’t ask ds2 school to drop any, he probably won’t get stellar grades in a couple of subjects but should do ok in most and I’m hoping it’ll pay off next year. 🤞🏻

DS had offers from all five of his uni applications with 8 GCSEs, four are RG unis.

I got an offer from Cambridge with 8 GCSEs, although that was rather a long time ago now!

8 isn’t an issue but 7 might be. RG in many cases sand bums on seats. Not every course is competitive and not every course takes GCSEs into account. So 8 GCSEs and RG offers is normal.

DS' year have just gone on to univrrsity. A large amount went onto Russell group and several to Oxford. They all did 9 GCSEs. Its standard at their school with 3 A'levels.

DS1's school only allowed them to take 9 afaik and he got in. He has friends from a nearby school who took 12 or more and other friends at uni who have handfuls of them,. No one cares. They care how good you are at the subject you are about to study. But you really do need very strong GCSE grades - straight A*s - to get into Cambridge as they have a points system and GCSEs play a big part in it. Oxford less so. (This info was correct 2 years ago when DS applied.

I thought that it was Oxford that looked more closely at both the number and the proportion of 8/9/A* achieved at GCSE, whereas Cambridge were more interested in post-GCSE grades? Which was why the university was so against AS levels being both decoupled from the overall A level assessment and (as a consequence) largely abandoned by schools?

@Cowbells

DS1's school only allowed them to take 9 afaik and he got in. He has friends from a nearby school who took 12 or more and other friends at uni who have handfuls of them,. No one cares. They care how good you are at the subject you are about to study. But you really do need very strong GCSE grades - straight A*s - to get into Cambridge as they have a points system and GCSEs play a big part in it. Oxford less so. (This info was correct 2 years ago when DS applied.

I think you have it the wrong way round, as MarchingFrogs suggests.

Certainly what you said contradicts what the Cambridge website says very explicitly:

^ There are no GCSE (or equivalent) requirements for entry to Cambridge. GCSE results are looked at as a performance indicator, but within the context of the performance of the school/college where they were achieved.
Applicants have generally achieved high grades in subjects relevant to their chosen course, and most students who apply have at least four or five 7/8/9s at GCSE (an A is considered equivalent to 7 and an A* is considered equivalent to 8/9). However, there are always exceptions and we don’t require a minimum number of 7/8/9s at GCSE. One of the strengths of the Cambridge admissions system is its ability to assess all applicants individually.
Our research shows that post-16 examination performance is a much better predictor of degree success at Cambridge. While GCSE results are looked at as a performance indicator, this is within the context of the performance of the school/college where they were attained, and strong performance in Years 12 and 13 can make up for a less stellar performance at GCSE.^

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/entrance-requirements

I have 2 grade C GCSEs.

I refused a RG uni. HTH

That's interesting @ErrolTheDragon. In that case I'm pretty sure they have changed their guidelines because when DS2 applied 2 years ago, GCSEs were taken into consideration in a points system (which rightly had a sliding scale aligned to average results from a given school.) The points system awarded certain points for the Cambridge tests and interviews and other points for GCSE results. If they have now changed to a system where you apply after your A level results are awarded the GCSEs significance may have dropped, but at an admissions talk at Cambridge we were explicitly told that GCSEs were a good overall indicator of how well a student would fare.

By contrast Oxford, which DS1 applied to, said that all that mattered was their interest in and capacity for the given subject.

That said, DS1 had better GCSEs and got into Oxford. DS2s GCSEs weren't great and he didn't get into Cambridge despite passing exam and getting excellent A levels, and the feedback he got implied they played their part in him not being offered a place.