Which Uni's offer good Chemistry degrees?

[neomneomneom]

My lovely DD is keen to pursue her love of chemistry and do a degree. She has just started to look into courses but we wondered if there are any good online sources of info regarding searching for universities which offer good chemistry degrees.

At this stage she doesn't wish to specialise so a general chemistry degree is what she's thinking. She particularly likes the idea of a year abroad or a year in industry.

Do any of you wise people have any recommendations as to good places to go / universities which offer good courses, please?

Any other tips gratefully received as we are literally starting out in a field we are very unfamiliar with.

Thank you.

Also, just to add to what Erroll said, all four of dp, sil, a good friend of mine and my df (all chemists, industrial, analytical and research x2 respectively) all think the 'year in industry' thing is a load of bollocks to put it bluntly.

@BillywigSting - can you tell me more why they think the year in industry isn't a good option please?

Bath, lovely campus all in one location, lovely city too

OP, I don't doubt that a year in industry may work out well for some students, but I'm sceptical about the number of chemistry departments offering a year in industry nowadays versus the likely number of high quality placements available.

If I had a DC who was interested in doing one I'd want them to think carefully about what the purpose was in the context of training as a chemist, and ask some hard questions of each department as to the number who end up actually doing a placement, whether they help with finding the places, and what sorts of companies and institutions they're with. And then I'd want to get some idea of the sorts of things they might be doing during the placement. A student who hasn't yet done their third year project(s) let alone postgrad research simply wont be able to do a lot of the most interesting stuff.

Basically what errol said, she clearly knows her stuff! (I am not a chemist, I just have a passing interest and am surrounded by them).

The quality of a high proportion of placements seem to be dubious at best, and is very much a 'work experience kid' type situation.

I defer to @ErrolTheDragon as an actual chemist but DS1 has a place at Oxford for this year so I have a bit of insight.

On Cambridge Nat Sci, DS1 applied for Oxford Chemistry because he just wants to do Chemistry. The Cambridge course is broader based but wouldn't have suited him. He really liked Imperial and the course is excellent but it's London and we already live in London so that was rejected.

His insurance is Durham and he would be pleased to go there. Like Errol I'm a bit sceptical about years in industry. DS1 will do a uni based research project in his 4th year if at Oxford which sounds great. A number of universities we visited seemed to imply students had to sort out their own placements, which didn't appeal.

Worth looking at Bristol and Manchester as well. DS1 was impressed by both,

My niece chose York because the year in industry is the 4th year rather than the 3rd year (integrated masters). She thought that the quality of the placements was better at York because the students had already had three years of study rather than two. Apparently a high proportion of students are offered jobs by the company with which they do their work placement.

That sounds like a better idea - I think I saw a website (maybe it was York) where essentially a placement was an alternative to doing a research project in one of the department research groups for the 4th year.

(If I had the benefit of hindsight and knowing how my interests panned out I'd have done the latter, very specifically in the York Structural Biology Lab)

When one of my DCs was considering Chemistry we narrowed it down to Oxford, Imperial, Nottingham, Durham, York and Bristol as potential options with Loughborough as the reserve choice . In the end they went down a different path. However, feedback from friend at Oxford Is that the course is intense and feels like a relentless battle. They are surviving but not really enjoying the experience. Another friend at Bristol however is loving theIf course and said the Department are really supportive. Their friend at Imperial (although another subject) loves the teaching but finds the other students less sociable than they were expecting and their uni experience therefore more limited. HTH.

I did a chemistry degree 15 years ago and work in the field in academia. I am abroad now though so maybe my knowledge of the UK undergrad scene is a bit patchy and I am missing a few good ones. Courses like Imperial are great if the intention is to pursue a career in the field because there is so much emphasis on lab work. York, Bath, Liverpool are good for general chemistry degrees. If she is not 100% sure I would strongly recommend looking at Scotland where the first years allow a lot more flexibility. St Addrews and Edinburgh or Strathclyde would be good starting points.

As for the year in industry. As an academic I would strongly recommend it if she is keen. It is a great opportunity to learn at a young age if industry is appealing and also a good chance to travel abroad and get paid reasonably to do so. The access to equipment is great too so a good chance to learn about different techniques. Different Unis have different requirements RE reports during that period. For some courses the year abroad replaces the masters thesis and is the last year at uni. In my case it was more of a gap year and I went back to my final year at my uni and also did a masters project. I preferred this option.

Finally I would say the most important thing is to visit and get a good feel from the departments, you can change courses relatively easily once there but changing universities is so much more disruptive.

Oh I should add and maybe someone can clarify, on my day at least the imperial and oxford courses were very similar, although imperial was spread over a few more weeks each semester. Bristol would also be a good choice!

My DS is at Manchester and he's loving it (he's actually on his year in industry at the moment but he can't wait to get back in sept) they have excellent labs/facilities. The entry requirements were AAA when he started, not sure what they are now.

OP, I don't doubt that a year in industry may work out well for some students, but I'm sceptical about the number of chemistry departments offering a year in industry nowadays versus the likely number of high quality placements available.

The point you're missing is that the uni don't "offer" a year in industry as such. Its just that the course allows a year out to do one. It's up to the students to apply for them, and if they don't get one, they just carry on with the BSc as normal and don't get the integrated masters.

FWIW both my dc have done a year in industry and it's been invaluable to them. The eldest walked straight into a good job from uni due to having a solid year of relevant work experience under her belt. The youngest is working for an excellent company, getting well paid, and gaining the experience of running his own research project, doing presentations to directors, and getting all sorts of other relevant experience.

I'm sure there are placements that aren't up to much, but it's very much up to the students to seek out good ones (and the interview experience is also useful)

I can't actually see what students have to lose by applying for a course that allows for a year in industry, as the rest of the course remains the same.

I think @listentoreason has a valid point. Look at unis that give the option to switch between courses so the student can decide how they want to pursue their learning as they progress through the course. Many courses allow you to opt for the year in industry at the end of first year or switch too/from Masters depending on what career choices they are thinking of. However, don’t go with the impression that the year in industry is always well paid, I know of some placements that were unpaid.

Unis that impressed when we were looking were Manchester, York, Sheffield & Birmingham - based on a combination of allowing to switch courses, friendliness of the departments, lab facilities and option modules (acknowledging that these could have changed).

@toilenstripes Exeter don't do chemistry anymore

The point you're missing is that the uni don't "offer" a year in industry as such. Its just that the course allows a year out to do one. It's up to the students to apply for them, and if they don't get one, they just carry on with the BSc as normal and don't get the integrated masters.

No, I'm not missing the point - just coming at it from the 'caveat emptor' perspective. Open days and their online equivalents will invariably showcase the students such as your DC for whom it's worked well. But I think there's a tendency to oversell, and it's necessary to do a bit more of a reality check. What is the alternative if the student can't find a good placement? If the pathway is as you suggest to finish with a BSc and then maybe find you have to take out another, more expensive, loan for an MSc then that's something to be aware of upfront. Whereas if it's clear that if the year in industry or abroad doesn't pan out then you can still do an integrated masters via a year in the uni research labs then that's much better. Perhaps most of them in reality allow this...but even so then that makes it more vital to consider the research capabilities of the uni (both ratings and size - equipment, choice of research groups)

sanityisamyth
Sorry, meant biochemistry

@Freedobby as far as I'm aware Manchester don't allow the students to work for free, the placements have to be paid and all approved by the uni. The employers have to offer a certain number of lab hours in order for it to be approved. The average salary for the placements my DS applied for was 18-20k, and because it runs over two tax years they don't end up paying any tax (unless they have another job during term time but they don't seem to have time for that)

@listentoreason that’s good of Manchester, my comment wasn’t regarded them as a uni. I still think it’s important for the OP to know that it’s worth looking at course flexibility so a student can switch between Year in Industry/Masters depending on what their areas of interest may be or depending on the availability of placements. Some work placements may not necessarily be so well paid or might not be easy to find in the area of interest the student wants to specialise in so having the ability to switch to a research project keeps all options open. In the current climate I think this will be an important consideration.

Exeter doesn't offer Chemistry. Unless you want to study the very niche areas they offer, steer well clear. From memory, I think they shut in 2003 but there might have been some residual study for the next few months.

DD1 (3rd yr Nat Sci) has friends studying Chemistry. DD herself wanted it too and did Chemistry in her 1st and 2nd years but has since specialised in a related discipline. One friend is at Oxford. She has found it extremely hard-going and has not really enjoyed the experience. Another is at Nottingham and until Covid, was on a year abroad placement in the USA. She speaks very highly indeed of her course and department and is considering a PhD there.

League tables are not everything. I have posted this several times before but some of the most highly-regarded institutions for their particular disciplines were rejected out of hand by my DDs because they hated the city/town. I would rather they were happy and studying at a slightly lesser-ranked place because they would likely end up working harder and getting a better class of degree. Not everyone on MN feels similarly, but it has worked well for us.

some of the most highly-regarded institutions for their particular disciplines were rejected out of hand by my DDs because they hated the city/town.

Absolutely - my DD didn't even consider Imperial for her STEM subject because it was London,

Fortunately there are very good departments for chemistry (and other disciplines) in all the combinations of city/ campus etc. Back in the day - 40 years ago () I wasn't aware of any league tables and my choice of Birmingham was to a large extent because of the campus, halls site, good public transport and also the interview day was really nice and welcoming.

Disappointing not to see Southampton on this list - a strong department, with a smaller intake and great new teaching labs. I have a Southampton Chemistry degree (& PhD) and it was a great department. They don’t seem to be so popular these days and I’m not sure why, it’s a great uni in a great location and a nice city to live in (although not beautiful in the centre)

When we were looking at unis with our DD and were visiting Southampton (for an engineering subject which they're extremely good for), I remember DH commenting that they used to be excellent for chemistry in our day, but had somehow fallen by the wayside a bit. I'm not sure what this was based on, and it may well be that if they've got new teaching labs they're upping their game again.

@ErrolTheDragon yes - highly respected degree with good opportunities post degree (my peers all went on to do great things). I’m not sure what happened, tried to expand too quickly perhaps, and have somehow lost their place in the market. Which is a shame, because a good chunk of the teaching staff remains the same, and in some cases is improved. The new labs look really good and have been a huge investment. I hope it puts them on the map again, because the old labs were fairly new when I was a student, and the lab provision and sessions were really strong. But more than that, there were about 60 in our year and it had a strong community feel.

www.southampton.ac.uk/chemistry/lab-refurb.page