Second gap year - a mistake?

[AB89]

Family friend didn’t get into any of her universities of preference last year because she got a B in the subject she wanted to. She paid for remarks, but they didn’t go up sufficiently despite teachers reading the papers and believing that they didn’t deserve the marks they achieved. 7 different teachers, 3 from her school and 4 from other schools, have all said they believed the marking on the first paper (graded at a D), to be categorically wrong - not following criteria. However the next stage was a £130 appeal, and her family was going through a legal issue at the time and too proud to ask for financial assistance from friends, so none of us knew this was an option.

The girl reapplied this year as she has to retake the A level and take a gap year, and got rejected from her two universities of preference (her firm and insurance last year). She now has a place on a joint honours course at her third choice university, which she has firmed, but is now considering another gap year to try again for either the original course at her third choice, or her firm/insurance universities.

Does anyone have experience of a second gap year? Would it challenge her socially (being 20 when lots of others are 18)? Is it worth it to get on the original course/University? She is very much torn.

Why does she not go for the comparative course at UCL as she got a place for that this year and she really likes UCL? Looks really interesting for somebody who likes reading widely and she gets to do a language as well which will increase her skills for both 'normal' and humanitarian jobs

I started uni at 20; Gap year & September birthday.
No drawback socially. Only difference was I had got out of the swing of studying.

My observation in this scenario is the apparent lack of interest of this girls parents. Are they University educated? Do they prefer her to be working and bringing in a wage as you say she has a well paid job.

Can she afford to take a gap year & do some travelling? I think if all she’s done is work, it’s not really a gap year. Maybe she will get a bit of perspective, have some fun and then go to a different uni and do the subject she loves. Single Honours.

I tbink she has to let go of the Cambridge dream. Year on year they are getting more and more very high quality applicants.

I alsk don't understand as you said she had remarks and that both papers did go up and her grades were somewhat adjusted. I appreciate it is difficult for a stude t and their family to accept that they may have fallen short when they were expected to do better.

You also said she actually applied for the joint honours course so I am.not sure why she is surprised this is what she has been offered.

Harris Manchester College in Oxford only takes students over 21, it is the usual Oxford course in English LIt otherwise (and central Oxford, old college etc, originally theological college but now all the subjects offered)

A friend's son did Comparative Lit at UCL and hated it, dropped out after a year (he was brilliant at English and got 3 A/A*) now he is going to another RG after a year out, so starting first year two years behind his cohort, and doing a different literature degree (theatre studies joint with something else)

I would apply to Oxford next year, they give less places but they don't have a policy on resits I don't think and their standard offer is AAA certainly for English. Lots of other good RG unis for Eng LIt, Exeter, York, Manchester, Glasgow...so many. Why compromise on Education and English if her heart isn;t in it, there are not so many people that just love reading - and I'm sure the interviewers would pick up on that.

Dh went to uni when he was 24 to do History, at Kings London. No problem fitting in, he had better working habits than most!!

A friend's son did Comparative Lit at UCL and hated it
It is true that each degree course will suit some and not others. It also depends on the quality and time investments from the academics teaching.
Posters are divided between chasing the dream three year degree and being pragmatic both for her degree choice and future.
It is sad when young people continue to put their life on hold because they don't want to give up on something which retrospectively was an increasing long shot. She has not performed sufficiently well in two interviews, the second Cambridge one (as she was pooled) and UCL. It may happen again next year. If she reapplies again, no harm in trying Oxbridge or UCL but she should have a third option that she is happy to take up and would look forward to.

zzz interview performance it is a matter of degree and relative to other candidates which is why I use the 'sufficiently well'.
She did n't perform sufficiently well to impress enough that a firm place was offered. Similar could well happen in the next round of application. There are a fair number of candidates who are 'good enough' to
get a place but not as good as the ones who get in by their interview, essays and when applicable entrance scores.

I mean 'entrance test scores'

which is why some people (and I know 2 examples of people who reapplied to do Humanities subjects at Ox) get in second time around, because they a) have more maturity b) some random reason why they were pipped to the post last time in your friend's child case, the A level blip. Although I know two people who did not get in second time around - and that can be a crushing experience. One went on to Durham doing his subject of choice and was extremely successful there.

Tbh it is not the be all and end all to get into Oxbridge but if you didn't get in the first time for reasons that seemed unfair well, then why not give it a go. I think the Oxbridge thread has some people who tried twice.

This would be her third time.

*the spread of ability is far smaller than you imagine^
I would agree that apart from the outstanding candidates, those in the middle have little often to choose between them.
She would appear to be in the middle group and therefore cannot count on her interview being successful at her third attempt.

This is an interesting thread.

I’m afraid, as hard as it is, it may be worth “settling” for Durham and getting on with it. She ought to try and drop the Education part. I’m not sure if I remember correctly, but I believe Durham offer foundation years, could she look into that? It is a fab uni, and a daughter of a friend has finished and about to begin her masters at Oxford. This is is a very difficult decision for sure.

On a side not, there has been discussion of “outstanding candidates” and middling ones etc. How would you sort candidates into these groups?

For Cambridge, outstanding would be those who get chosen by the big name colleges eg Trinity? Middling those pooled or accepted by lesser known colleges? (Is there even much difference in the standard of applicants between Cambridge colleges?)

For Oxford, outstanding would be those who apply to the big name colleges eg Brasenose, John’s, Magdalen etc and get in? Those who get released early after fewer interviews than the rest? Middling being those that get pooled or again apply to lesser known colleges such as St Anne’s,Peter’s etc?

Would pooling alleviate all of this?^

I’m just going to answer and reoutline the salient points.

Last year she got into the college that (in that year) was most competitive for English, with her GCSE and AS levels and her predicted grades (3 A*s).

This year, she applied with 2As and a B, the B in English Literature, and was placed in the “pool” but not fished. She received her feedback which ranked her in the second quintile for her first interview, first quintile for her second interview, first quintile for her ELAT (assessment) scores, and highly praised her submitted essays. It then said that her grades indicated she’d be capable of being on the course, but that the average applicant had 9As at GCSE (she only took 8), 3A*s at A level projected or achieved, and an ELAT score in the top quintile, so she and other exceptional candidates had been squeezed out. To me, this indicates that the B (which she shouldn’t have) ended up being the deal breaker - just as it was the previous year.

If the outcome of her ofqual appeal comes through positive her first plan is to contact the college she initially held an offer with. The paper has not been properly marked at either instance - pages with writing are marked blank and assessment objectives frequently not acknowledged - the marked scripts show this.

She would have been happy this year had she got into UCL (which she did the year before), but her interview this year went horrendously (she says she went into a bit of a freeze and on the spot couldn’t think of any examples of romantic poetry... usually she can quote the romantic poets to death and tell you their life stories...).

Her options are essentially take another year out and go for straight English at Durham, UCL, and Cambridge again, or go to Durham for Education and English. Her parents aren’t really keen on her going to University and won’t financially assist. That’s why I’ve become so invested after finding out the full extent of the story. I just think this is a very deserving young lady who shouldn’t really have to be on an alternative course at her third choice of university, when she got into her first two choices on her first application (both of which are obviously incredibly competitive for the course).

Sorry above should say average accepted applicant, when I refer to the 9A*s etc.

Unless she gets an A* for English this time it would not be worth going through the Oxbridge process a third time. I'm not sure why she has got so fixated on those 3, there are plenty of other very good English degree courses out there who would have accepted her with her current grades. Will the appeal result be known before half term? Once she resits everything that happened last year is irrelevant and she needs to be focussed on doing as well as she can this time. However it is far from a forgone conclusion her grade will improve, with different questions and self study in the meantime.

zzzzz they’ll be insisting she continues to pay rent while at university if she wants to be able to come back there out of term time - I think that’s a little harsher than most parents. I know I’m not giving DS anything but I’m also not making him pay rent at all (even when he’s home over Christmas/easter/summer) and don’t know of anyone else who is. I even let DS just eat family meals when he’s home, no contribution required. Maybe I’m just soft

She knows there are other good choices but her fourth choice (Warwick) said they wouldn’t be likely to accept her with resits, her fifth choice (Exeter) is 5 hours away from home and she’s never actually seen the university, and her sixth choice (St Andrew’s) is also 5 hours away and one of her friends went, hated it, and dropped out which naturally puts her off.

This year she held offers for English at St Andrew’s and Exeter, Education/English at Durham, and Comparative Literature at UCL. Rejected for English at UCL and Cambridge post interview.

Last year she had offers from Cambridge, UCL, Durham, St Andrew’s and York.

She is unfortunate not to have got her grades and it sounds as though she has fallen foul of the marking system but as said above she won't be the first or last. Decisions whether to reapply for a third time are all calculated risks and managing expectations. She has messed up one interview (UCL) and performed suboptimally for her (second quintile) in one of her Cambridge interviews this year.
That may well happen again next year. As I said she needs to find third and fourth choices that she would be happy with if she reapplied next year and not count on UCL or Oxbridge.