The upcoming strikes

[mrsrhodgilbert]

I have a dd in her third year at a university where there will be strike action for the next four weeks starting on Thursday. I've only been aware of this for a few days and I've seen nothing about it in the press. Dd doesn't yet know how it will affect her, she has one lecturer who covers her two modules this term and hasn't asked her if she will be striking. Literature from the university says they can ask their lecturers if they will be striking but the lecturer doesn't have to answer, so all a bit uncertain.

I'm just interested to know what your dc have been told if anything and what might happen re completing final modules without teaching and indeed if final exams could be cancelled. In that case what would happen?

[andhardlyanywomenatall]

Will check for updates tomorrow

“EY and PWC also produced valuations of the USS scheme that were rejected by the Pensions Regulator
Again I'd like to see”

[blueskypink]

But also don't forget that the majority of income comes from fees, and we haven't been able to increase these for years

They went up less than 2 years ago didn't they? From £9k to £9,250.

[user150463]

Fees were set at 9k in 2012. A small increase to 9,250 happened in 2017.

How many of you would be happy with such increases for your salaries?

Freezing fees means decreasing the academic salary bill year on year, by making cut after cut, and giving virtually no pay rises.

[blueskypink]

Public sector here user - don't talk to me about pay freezes.

I have no sympathy for people who think it's ok to withhold a service that my dcs are paying £9,250 a year for.

[titchy]

They went to £9250 six months ago.... the first increase since 2012, and for most institutions year 2 and higher students still pay the old £9000.

Could you run a sustainable business knowing that you couldn't increase the price at which you sell your goods, but you still had to pay ever-increasing costs?

[andhardlyanywomenatall]

it's an interesting question bluesky.

If we still had student grants, and so your dcs education was being funded from tax, would that change your view on the strike?

[titchy]

Blame the government then. They removed most of the grant that we got to run courses and decided students should pay.

[blueskypink]

I blame Tony Blair for the ridiculous notion that so many people should be encouraged to go to university thereby devaluing the experience for everyone and making the whole thing financially unsustainable.

[andhardlyanywomenatall]

"How many of you would be happy with such increases for your salaries?"

now that is the sort of question that makes some of us in the private sector very cross indeed.

In 2003, my services were charged out at £250 per hour. Now they are charged out at £120 per hour.

Many of us in the private sector have seen salary expections halve.

That is the reality of exposure to a market.

But somehow people in the public sector are still urged to compare their salaries to those of city workers. It makes me slightly grumpy.

It also helps my dh be very glad and grateful for his enormous £70000 academic salary. This is a lot of money round here folks.

[blueskypink]

most institutions year 2 and higher students still pay the old £9000.

Really? My dcs pay the higher rate (year 1 and year 3)

[andhardlyanywomenatall]

"Could you run a sustainable business knowing that you couldn't increase the price at which you sell your goods, but you still had to pay ever-increasing costs?"

you've never run a law firm have you?
The answer is, yes, because you and your fellow equity partners have to remortgage your house to put money into the business.

This is fantasy world stuff - the idea that the private sector just chugs along getting loads of money.

[andhardlyanywomenatall]

and please don't tell me it's not a race to the bottom. just please. don't.

we are not the bottom. we are just professionals dealing with a scary chargeable market.

I do think that the top end of academia is a sweet sweet gig. It's getting there that's the problem.

[titchy]

I said most not all. And most HEIs have only charged the fee increase to their 1st years. Half the increase has to go in student support (bursaries etc) by the way.

And I'm sympathetic if your salary has dropped in real terms. Why does that always seem to mean though that university staff should therefore be happy with their lot when it's removed from them?

[user150463]

In 2003, my services were charged out at £250 per hour. Now they are charged out at £120 per hour.

How on earth can you compare this to somebody on 35k (after 7 years of university education, several more years of experience after that) experiencing a pay freeze? Or to somebody working in a university on 18k in an administrative role, aged e.g. 50?

Just because your charge out rates went down, it's fine to freeze the salaries of everybody? What planet are you on?

[user150463]

But somehow people in the public sector are still urged to compare their salaries to those of city workers. It makes me slightly grumpy.

But in some cases we really have the right to, because we actually do consult for these companies. My consultancy rate is insanely higher than my academic salary. How does this not say that I am ludicrously underpaid by my academic employers?

[user150463]

I have no sympathy for people who think it's ok to withhold a service that my dcs are paying £9,250 a year for.

But we don't see this money.

We get paid less and less each year for higher and higher workload. Your complaints should be targeted at the government, who are underfunding universities and research and playing parents/students off against academics in a race to the bottom that only benefits the super rich.

[andhardlyanywomenatall]

Thanks. One gets over it...

[user150463]

And yet another reason why the situations are not comparable: my university could easily charge 20k for fees, and hence pay its academics properly. It doesn't do so, because the government makes it give a reduced rate to UK students. Does your law firm have such restrictions imposed upon it by the government? To give a fixed low price to UK customers, and a rule that a large fraction of its customers must be British?

[andhardlyanywomenatall]

"what planet are you on?"

ah... the face-slaps are beginning. that's my cue to bow out for now.

[sendsummer]

In 2003, my services were charged out at £250 per hour. Now they are charged out at £120 per hour.

With all due respect that sounds as though you are being outcompeted since other lawyers continue to charge the higher rate.
Very difficult to put a real comparative value on services either in public or private sector but private sector have charged what the market can bear.
There are far fewer professors than lawyers earning £70, 000.

[blueskypink]

But we don't see this money.

We get paid less and less each year for higher and higher workload

User - I don't really care whether you see this money or not. The fact remains that my dcs are taking on a huge debt in return for a service which is being denied to them.

And, as I said earlier - thousands of people in the public sector, including me, are effectively paid less each year for a higher workload. You aren't special in that regard.

[SoupyNorman]

thousands of people in the public sector, including me, are effectively paid less each year for a higher workload. You aren't special in that regard.

If you’re not happy with that situation then maybe it’s time you stood up for yourselves via industrial action as well.

[titchy]

The dispute isn't about pay - it's about the removal of a DB pension scheme - which everyone else in the public sector has.

When your dcs graduate and are thrust into the world of work only to find their salaries and benefits are cut I'm guessing you'll tell them just to get on with it cos your chargeable rate went down yes?

[blueskypink]

Titchy - I know it isn't about pay. I was responding to comments made by others. I'm on a dB pension scheme at the moment. I know of several organisations, my own included, that regularly discuss how to move everyone onto a dc pension. The first step is likely to be offering incentives for people to switch. But I won't be making third parties suffer in protest.

[titchy]

Presumably you don't believe nurses and doctors should strike either then? Or teachers? Or bin men? Or any other public sector employee?