The upcoming strikes

[mrsrhodgilbert]

I have a dd in her third year at a university where there will be strike action for the next four weeks starting on Thursday. I've only been aware of this for a few days and I've seen nothing about it in the press. Dd doesn't yet know how it will affect her, she has one lecturer who covers her two modules this term and hasn't asked her if she will be striking. Literature from the university says they can ask their lecturers if they will be striking but the lecturer doesn't have to answer, so all a bit uncertain.

I'm just interested to know what your dc have been told if anything and what might happen re completing final modules without teaching and indeed if final exams could be cancelled. In that case what would happen?

[titchy]

I know employers are expected to meet the shortfall but they can’t payout from nothing!

why do you think employers would have nothing?

rhod

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Thanks nomen.

FWIW, much college teaching these days goes to postdocs, as part of the delightful process whereby younger academics are kept clinging on to casualised employment. I don't think this is great for students either.

[NomenOmen]

user Apologies for perhaps an unfair generalisation. I live in one of those cities myself and was a part of its university for my entire student career. I know they are expensive. My dp is in one of those universities, so I’m not speaking from a position of ignorance with regard my subject (and several related) at least. And the supervision load is variable: many of my counterparts do as little as possible (by choice) and get PhD students to do most of it. And their lecture load is dramatically less than mine.

Generally, Oxford college fellowship salaries are higher.

And doing 6 * c.30 a week for 20 weeks does add a few thousand to someone’s salary. It’s not megabucks, obviously, but outside of Oxbridge, academics are not paid extra for their equally heavy or heavier supervising and teaching load.

I agree entirely however that UTOs do very often - consciously or unconsciously - pass the buck to CTOs, LTOs, and JRFs, and other casualised staff whose incomes are lower and more precarious. Unless you are a CTO at Trinity...

Anyway, my point was not to appear all sour grapes (😆) but to try to account for the conservative attitudes of Oxbridge academics.

[mrsrhodgilbert]

I don't think I said anything insulting about lecturers and I do understand the precarious nature of the work. My late bil was a lecturer until the late 80s and from the many conversations with him things don't seem that have improved. He certainly wasn't well off but loved his subject and teaching. I was merely asking what might happen to these students, out of concern. I'm not suggesting she asks for her money back, I just want her to get a fair chance.

Our involvement has been to act as taxi service for open days and removal company when moving into new housing. I might be guilty of giving her a bit of home cooking for her freezer occasionally.

Recent replies have left me feeling more settled so thank you and anyone else experiencing the horrors of oncology, best wishes.

[NomenOmen]

PS. I realise that does sound entirely sour grapes and grumpy! Sincere apologies: just frustrated at apathetic response from people I know in Oxbridge to the pension proposals. They have power in their universities via their colleges and the senate, etc, but seem not to want to wield it.

[NomenOmen]

LRD - indeed. As a PhD student I was doing (an illegal) 8 hrs a week supervising (and fellows would always offer me more). And I was not an anomaly.

[NomenOmen]

mrsrhodgilbert, I wish your daughter the best of luck with the reminder of her degree, and I’m sure plans are in place to help her and others through this stressful time.

Perhaps she should frame her complaint to her VC/Principal in financial terms: it’s the only language many of them seem to speak.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Best of luck, mrsrhod. I hope all goes well for you and your DD.

nomen, no, I would imagine. I know someone who supervised 30 hours p/w in the term before her PhD submission.

[NomenOmen]

Sorry, user - only just read your follow-up message. That’s incredibly tough about your cancer treatment. All the very, very best with that. 💐

[NomenOmen]

30 hours! Bloody hell. I’m amazed they managed to write up. And I’m astonished their supervisor allowed it. But I expect they needed the money, so...

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Well, she's incredibly bright and driven! But I was shocked and I've supervised 30 hours p/w myself. I did not get the equivalent of a PhD writing-up headspace out of it.

[ZBIsabella]

I see that Reading and City have said that if students sue for a refund on their fees the univertisities will join the strikers to the legal actions as third parties (which is something that is done in litigation if there is someone else who may be responsible for or involved in the claim). It may be the union will buy an insurance policy from which strikers can benefits in the case of such court actions against the individual lecturers, if they come.

[titchy]

Won't happen. Students always threaten to sue when lecturers strike - it's a rite of passage! Striking is a perfectly legitimate course of action to take and strikees cannot be sued if they act within the law. Which they have.

[InDubiousBattle]

Honesty op try not to worry (easier said than done I know! ). In my experience academics are a pretty mild mannered bunch and this is this most pissed off and riled I've seen our friends and dp's colleagues(he works at Leeds) but it is still inconceivable that they would allow the strikes to seriously affect students graduations or final degree classifications. They really don't want to do this, quite apart for anything else they are losing half a months salary.

[ZBIsabella]

I have read the university/student contract of my sons. It says there is no liability for strikes for breach of contract. However that may be an unfair term and void under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as the students paying £27k+ hardly have much change to negotiate it so it might stand up in court. You could only claim a proportionate amount of what you paid for that period from the university however as you can still use the libraries etc. In our case it would depend how long the strikes go on. My sons can cope with 2 weeks without lectures in year 1. I would not bring a small claim for that. If it became much more than it might be worth a punt as you can start a claim on line for small cash claims and a local country court judge might well be pro-student on this and if the claim is under £10k neither side can recover legal costs against the other so not a lot of risk in such smaller claims.

[Squirrills]

Hello mrsrhodgilbert
This should be two different threads really.
I was lurking but decided to post because I know you from the old empty nest thread. I'm sorry to hear of your ongoing health problems. My older DC graduated last year and young one is not doing finals so not as affected as your DD.
I was aware of the strike though and messaged DS to ask whether he was affected. He says the lecturers were not letting their intentions be known in advance so students presumably have to turn up on the day in order to find out whether the lecture will go ahead or not. He is hoping to find out more after this week.

[Needmoresleep]

DS says that LSE are not going on strike. Voting mechanics are such that if a Union member did not want to strike, it was more effective to abstain rather than vote against. There were two ballots that narrowly missed the required 50% turnout. A few more voting against might have pushed turnout above 50%, with a majority in favour. This suits him as he is half way through a very intensive 10 month Masters. Certainly some in the LSE must be breathing a sigh of relief. This is the point at which future Masters students are choosing which offers to accept. These courses are expensive and major money spinners for the University (and for the UK - DS is the 2.5% of home students on his course.) Fears of industrial action might well send potential students elsewhere.

Not many of those teaching DD are in the right Union so she may not be affected. She thinks it will be strange to have a full timetable when others don't.

[Jinglebells99]

To be honest, I'm feeling furious about this strike. My son only has about eight contact hours a week and it looks like he will have barely any lectures or seminars over the next four weeks. £9000 a year. 😡

[TalkinPeace]

Eight contact hours a week
WOW
what degree?
DD has 28

[homebythesea]

My DS in same boat jinglebell - 8 hours over 3 days which happen to coincide with most of the strike days 🙄. Humanities at RG uni

[Needmoresleep]

TiP, is your DD studying science.

DS had about eight hours. An hours lecture and then an hours class on each topic. He was expected to spend two hours preparing for each lecture (mainly maths or economics concepts - hard to follow if you don't have any familiarity) then about four-six hours follow-up. Plus obviously time for some wider reading, attending guest lectures etc.

University is surely about being guided to learn, not sitting in the class room. And it is not unusual for demanding courses to have fewer, not more contact hours.

[SoupyNorman]

That’s not an untypical amount for a humanities course. We tell our students that every hour of contact time should have 2-3 hours of prep time of independent reading. The library is their lab. Once you factor that in, it quickly gets close to a full working week. Of course, the benefit is that humanities students can do those 2-3 hours of prep at any time, and usually anywhere (as all resources are digitally available).

[TalkinPeace]

needmore
Lectures I think are around 12
Tutorials around 4
the rest is labs
her course is pretty demanding - but requires equipment

[Needmoresleep]

Labs suggests your DD is taking science which is different. For humanities and maths, equipment comes in the form of books or problem sets.

[Jinglebells99]

My son is doing History, eight hours contact over four days, no lectures on Wednesdays,so it seems all the strike days are on days he should have lectures.