University Open Days- what do you expect staff to wear?

[PoisonedIvy]

Completely random question prompted by a discussion with a colleague.

I've just taken over the running of my department's open days. I'm leading one this Saturday.

Do you expect/want the academics leading open days to be dressed smart? I normally dress very casual for work and was planning to wear the same type of thing as usual for the open day (jeans, leather jacket, top, boots). But my colleague who ran open days where she used to work was of the opinion that staff should dress up a bit smart.

So, what do you think?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

We're not really allowed to mix with humanities and social science so I don't know what they looked like



chem, that reminds me of when I first met my DP. My housemate (a fellow English Lit type) asked me eagerly whether she was butch or femme. I was unable to answer, because DP is a scientist, and therefore what I might consider to be butch female clothing, might simply be STEMware.

[user918273645]

what I might consider to be butch female clothing, might simply be STEMware.

It would be deeply offensive to stereotype what STEM researchers wear. (Mind you, I am also against classifying as butch or femme, not least because I fit neither category.)

[chemenger]

STEMwear? Wow, stereotype much? Is that what you do down in social sciences?

[MrsCK]

Dh is a senior lecturer. He'd wear chinos and a shirt.

Maybe leggings and a long tunic type top with boots for a female? Definitely more smart than jeans I think.

[TeaAddict235]

maisypops that look is very city chic especially with those heels. Can't really see anyone in Chemeng or STEM on the academic side wearing something like that to work, maybe evening drinks with flat shoes. completely misses the point of the thread

[user918273645]

TeaAddict: again you are stereotyping. Somebody in STEM who doesn't work in a lab could be in city chic - particularly if they had meetings with senior management that day.

It really puts off female students in my STEM subject, that they are expected to conform to "geek", "STEMware" etc stereotypes. They should feel accepted to just dress however they want to.

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

We have open days most months and I have an Open Day Dress. It is a navy Monsoon dress, below the knee, which I wear with nude tights, low heels and a tailored cardi. Small pearl earrings.

I am a HoD in humanities and attend every open day. Colleagues wear things like dark wash jeans with a funky asymmetric wrap top, fitted jeans with a floaty tunic on top, Sea Salt dress with knee boots.

Only the admin staff wear "business dress".

And I am pretty sure STEMware was a joke! Most people where I work turn up in jeans, high end hiking shoes and "smart" T plus gilet regularly.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

user9 - ditto, and DP doesn't like it either. I was tongue in cheek, as I'm fairly sure chem was when she said she wasn't allowed to mix with social scientists/humanities types.

FWIW I am almost as offended by dress/sexuality stereotyping as I am by the horrific suggestion Lit people are social scientists.

[user918273645]

STEMware was a joke!

I find it hard to take things as jokes, when such "jokes" regularly cause tutees to cry on my shoulder. "Jokes" about how they can't be scientists because of the way they dress. "Jokes" about how they are obviously scientists because of the way they dress. And occasionally "jokes" about how female scientists dress like lesbians. (The latter is something I take very personally and find very offensive.)

[chemenger]

Female STEM students and staff are a minority and an unprotected one. I don't think it is helpful to make jokes about stereotypical assumptions about minorities. However since I managed to accidentally insult LRD as well we can call it quits.

[jjgg]

I always find it a bit weird that the non-academics mostly dress smart but the academics mostly dress casual.

[GiantSteps]

Why, jjgg?

[TeaAddict235]

user I am a Chemenger, I think that I am more than qualified to make a perfectly justified observation. Yes, at imperial many female academics dress nicely, and according to their tastes. But I have worked only in Chemeng both in industry and academia both U.K. and abroad and recognise that there is a trend in which certain disciplines dress. Just as someone mentioned up thread that Art major academics dress uniquely. Thought that free opinion so long as not offensive was permitted, non??

[TeaAddict235]

Have you tried wearing heels on a platform or in a lab for >6hrs at a stretch? What was the result? Bunions? Thought so!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

user9, I'm very sorry I said something that upset you, and I judged it wrongly.

What I meant to imply was that I couldn't judge clothing norms across subjects, which is perfectly true. DP works in a lab. Whether she wears flat shoes, short/tied back hair and jeans because she wants to or because it's better health and safety, isn't obvious. I work wherever I like, and I could wear heels and swirly dresses if I chose, or jeans, flat shoes and heels.

I didn't in the least mean to suggest that dressing butch (not 'like a lesbian,' thank you - I am sure you know not all lesbians are butch) means you are a scientist. But I realise I should just not have said anything at all.

chem - you didn't insult me! I thought it was funny and I had tried, badly, to respond in kind.

[chemenger]

We're good! It's a terrible communication medium, so easy to misinterpret and academics do like to argue!!!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Indeed we do like to argue!

[Trills]

I can confirm the existence of STEMware in some labs.

When I was doing my PhD anything dressier than jeans, trainers, vest top/t-shirt would elicit questions of "are you going out later?". So it was easier not to, whatever my personal inclinations.

[Trills]

And this was in a building where the PhD students / postdocs / non-academic staff were 50/50 m/f.

[Trills]

No idea why I put in "ware" instead of "wear" - maybe I was thinking of glassware.

[user918273645]

Thought that free opinion so long as not offensive was permitted, non??

Upthread you commented not just about Chemical Engineers, but also about "STEM on the academic side".

As Trills wrote, women who go to work in STEM wearing outfits like this Maisypops are often asked where they are going in the evening, and given the impression that it is not what they should be wearing. You reinforced this stereotype:

"Can't really see anyone STEM on the academic side wearing something like that to work, maybe evening drinks with flat shoes."

Women working in STEM should be free to wear what they like. Of course they are not going to dress in business wear on an oil rig or climbing up a volcano. Indeed many women working in STEM would not wear business type dress. But for many STEM jobs this choice of clothing would be fine, if this is what a woman wants to wear.

Again, I feel strongly about this because of the number of female students who cry on my shoulder about being made to feel unwelcome in science because of their choice of clothing.

[GiantSteps]

This whole thread makes me feel uneasy. Women are being judged on what they wear as indicative of their "professionalism."

What an academic wears has nothing to do with how good they are at their job. Absolutely.Nothing.

And this whole "I expect academics to look professional" can have more serious implications for women, as @user918273645 says.

It's also a class issue.

[Trills]

I don't know that anyone is agreeing with or reinforcing a stereotype just by saying "I have observed this to be the case".

"I can't see people in X role wearing something like that to work" could be followed by
... because that's not how you are supposed to dress in that role (supporting the stereotype)
or could be followed by
...because there is social pressure for them to dress in a particular way
(noting that the stereotype exists without supporting it)

[BoonDucks]

What do you expect staff to wear?

I don't think that the question of smart or casual for a particular work situation is necessarily sexist?
I would view a man in tracksuit bottoms and t shirt in the the same way as a woman in leggings and a t shirt. Comfortable, casual clothing are fine if they are the norm in your workplace but not IMO the right look for meeting and greeting the public on an open day.
I wear casual clothes when I'm working on my own but to meet prospective clients I wear something smarter - not necessarily a suit. I don't own smart clothes for my own pleasure as I find them uncomfortable, they are purely for work and I would never, ever wear them otherwise.

[Fffion]

Why should university staff dress worse than the corresponding business community that they might well be in with their degrees?

Business is pretty much "smart casual" these days - so suit/chinos, crisp shirt, no tie for men; tailored dress, modest skirt/crisp shirt/ jacket, trouser suit for women.

This is our dress code at work, although men have to wear ties. I pretty much have my own "uniform" that I put on without any thought - dresses, skirt/shirt/cardigan, suit. I don't try to make a fashion or feminist statement.

I've been on lots of open days with 4 DCs and the staff dress has been unremarkable and in line with the age of the staff member (e.g. 50+ would wear a tie, younger would not). I don't think I have ever seen leggings or jeans. I would have remembered that.