University offers for 2017 start (Part 2)

[EnormousTiger]

Continuation of the original thread which is now on to 40 page maximum.
Original thread (part 1) here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/2759621-Uni-offers-for-2017-start?

Most offers now received. My twins have had offers from their 4 and are currently deciding which will be firm and which insurance. One twin
( possibly two of them) is going to an offer holders' day coming up at Bristol next month with his friends from school.

Also, employers seem to prefer UWE to Bristol. Like all unis, it has its subject but overall it's no oxbridge competitor I think.

It can depend on your career too - a lot of new graduates going into law went to Durham and Bristol www.chambersstudent.co.uk/media/1067/what_is_a_good_university.pdf UWE is much less likely for the better higher paid London law firms anyway. I am not saying it is not a good university, however.

Have to disagree with some of the comments about Bristol and other universities. The various league table can give very misleading headline impressions - the Guardian one in particular because of the heavy weight given to student satisfaction surveys. The main usefulness of the UK tables is that you can strip out the bits that matter to you e.g. what are the achieved entry levels for incoming students or what is the research assessment score. If you do that then it is pretty clear that Bristol is still in the top ranks in academic terms although it looks like students were annoyed that student numbers had got ahead of facilities expansion (?). Alternatively you can find a lot of data in Unistats on all aspects, including percentages of students at different levels by subject. In a way I am not sure it is helpful to have so much information - I think I preferred the old days!

Tiger, the stats you have linked to are 5 years out of date. However, the overall advice seems to be correct in that the recommendation is for the individual to apply to where they feel they will do best and be happiest with the course etc.

Similarly, and with regard to the methodology for league tables, surely it is right to give a lot of weight to student satisfaction, as in the Guardian survey? Students are all paying 'customers' now, and given the amounts being spent, and the fact that many will be heavily in debt for many years, isn't it reasonable for them to expect the institution they are attending to meet their reasonable needs?

I think all league tables need to be viewed with some criticality- they're useful up to a point. One thing to remember is that some of the sample sizes are extremely low. Another question is whether some cohorts of students are likely to be more demanding than others.

You might hope that the research rankings were objective and directly comparable - but even there, there can be devil in the detail. While some departments include all their academic staff, others don't - that's bound to skew the results. For DD's subject - electrical&electronic engineering, the Times Good Uni guide has an anomaly... it ranks cambridge first. Despite the fact they don't actually offer it, its included in Gen. Eng. The research rating quoted is the same as for gen eng (and civil, mech, aero) (none of the other unis which just do gen eng eg oxford, durham do this).

I don't think Bristol is diong too badly in terms of where City law firms in London recruit from

www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities but obviously Oxbridge remains the best. That more recent link puts Nottingham above Bristol but as your A level grades are part of the key to getting these law jobs and Bristol requires higher ones that Notts and the table I link to is based on number of graduates so places with more students have more if you see what I mean I would put Bristol above Notts.
I am slightly biased in that my daughtyer went to Bristol and did well and her twin brothers are currently trying to choose between Bristol and Durham offers (which they pick is entirely up to them as far as I am concerned)

For investment banking the top 10 if you flick throught these pictures is a good list too www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationpicturegalleries/11683435/Top-universities-for-getting-into-investment-banking.html?frame=3068784

We have our first uni visit on Saturday. Dd did it all backwards and applied and got offers before showing any interest in giving up her valuable time to visit. Hope she likes it

Tiger, exactly. LSE heads this poll but comes bottom of many (most) student satisfaction tables.

Similarly, and with regard to the methodology for league tables, surely it is right to give a lot of weight to student satisfaction, as in the Guardian survey?

Student satisfaction as measured currently (surveys in final year) is actually a very poor measure of long term satisfaction with the course. Student satisfaction is often very high for less challenging courses and less high for more challenging courses but the latter often prepare students for work far better. Looking back from five or ten years down the line, I very much doubt that students would actually rate their courses as they do in their final year surveys.

BTW in my own subject student satisfaction is approximately inversely proportional to depth/quantity of material taught. RG universities do poorly. Cambridge (considered by many to be the best course in the country) does poorly. Non-campus London universities tend to do poorly even though their degrees are highly respected. Lower tariff universities top satisfaction tables.

Perhaps more importantly: the differences between many courses' student satisfaction are not actually statistically significant. Courses can rise or fall ten places in the table just on the responses of a handful of students.

If you do that then it is pretty clear that Bristol is still in the top ranks in academic terms.

Many MN perceive Bristol to be top 10. It simply isn't for many subjects, whether measured by research or by other measures.

DS had a phone call from Loughborough tonight to discuss his course, any questions he has, anything else he needs to know.

They easily ranked the best in terms of prep for open day, presentation quality etc. Most definitely making an effort.

Dd had a call from Sheffield. She said it was embarrassing, because she's already decided to reject them.

This has been very interesting thank you since my own university experience is quite ancient and I have only kept up with this in intervening years through family or from my own experience recruiting or working with people e.g. two excellent fairly recent grads from Newcastle. Stats don't tell the whole story of course. Re Bristol (and that is an example rather than any particular axe to grind) they seem steady over the last decade on top ten entry standards but that is just one specific measure and there is presumably an insider view that stats don't get to - I know I have often groaned at the fact that stats and assessments in my particular field/company/ issues aren't even measuring the right things let alone accurately. I think so many parents would just love to have someone who actually knows tell us what the state of play is with different universities and subjects and who does what well and where.

At least these days there are university visits. Eve's point about Loughborough seems spot on re the importance of taking this opportunity to impress. I visited 3 uniiversities with DS looking at two subject areas. York was the one that stood out in terms of academic interest and being nice too, Exeter in terms of you will have a great time here and then get a good job and we are set up to make sure that happens and the third spent all its time explaining how great it was and its own view of why its league table position was so justified and ought to be even higher. You can guess which one was ditched straightaway irrespective of league table positions!

Ds has rejected a university as he didn't like the city. He's had an email from them offering a phone call to discuss an unconditional offer - I wish they hadn't as it's a confusing time for teens applying for university and it just makes it more complicated. I've told him to ignore it if he wants to as it's not worth going to a uni that he doesn't think he'd be happy at just because they are trying hard to make him consider them again. I hope that's the right decision

I'm in Canada so the whole process is totally different but I'm joining in as I'm so excited for DD. She's been offered conditional places at: Ottawa, Ryerson (Toronto), St FX (Nova Scotia) UBC Okenagen Campus(but was rejected by Vancouver campus), and Victoria BC. She is still waiting for university of Toronto.

Weirdly, they make the conditions easier than the grades the students have already acheived for last year, so virtually everyone will meet their conditions. They also offer scholarships ($2000- $20000 depending on your final grades.) DD is just so happy to have her best choices- it's been a long slog!

Wow, that's a heck of a geographical spread! what subject, or is canada more like the US with major/minor type thing?

Grubble - so long as he has other achievable offers he prefers, then sure just send a polite email and stick to his choices.

York is lovely. My niece read history there and she loved it.

Dusty, I am guessing it was Warwick!

Yes, I don't like the personal calls to hom, the post cards and letters and yesterday one of mine got an individual hand written post card from one of his universities. It muddies the waters and teenagers can be influenced - they will go into school and compare who has had the most universities calling them trying to persuade them to firm the offers.

By all means have offer days but the hard sell does not feel right for an educational sector.

We were a bit surprised DD getting a postcard with a bit of feedback after one interview. We wondered if, as it was an individual communication not a standard mass mailing, if they used postcards for transparency?

Anyway... hopefully she's arrived in Cambridge and found her way to the college - the visit includes (not very) formal dinner, sleep on a first year's floor and then shadow her tomorrow morning. Makes me wish her other favourite would do a bit more of the 'influencing' - she really enjoyed her interview day there but it was months ago.

One of my twins is not visiting any of the universities so I suppose at least there will be equality in that sense and neither can put him off on a visit day.

Tango, yes it was Warwick! Nice to know that York is as lovely as it seemed.

That's really interesting Dusty. My DS wanted to love Warwick but was put off by the formality of the offer day and the v strong impression that they were more important than he was. Has rejected it despite its ranking because he wasn't sure he would be invested in. That was not the impression from the other offer days he went to. I have friends with DC there though that love it so maybe it all comes down to personal preference.

Lots of confusion in our household currently. DS has 4 offers for politics and international relations and is off to his last offer holder open day at york this weekend.
He has been to Exeter and liked the town but not the lecture or lecturer.
Sheffield had great energy and fab lecture, didn't like too much about Sheffield itself.
Nottingham - best campus but only ok on the rest.

And now he is hoping York will be 'perfect' for him this weekend. If not...no idea how to 'help' him choose without influencing him unduly.
He is in a Gap year, they are all unconditional offers...
I am finding this quite difficult!!

andolea - personally at this stage i took a bit of a step back. I told my son what i thought, checked out there weren't any really mad choices, got him to speak with his teacher in the degree area and then left him to it. a lot of its gut feel, and my view was it had to be his gut feel. i didnt want him blaming me if anything didn't go right and he is an adult now.

How can he not like Sheffield it's a great city.