UCAS: Cambridge or Oxford?

[user1473771286]

DD is interested in studying economics at Cambridge. The predicted grade is AAA, not all A (due to a low A grade in one of the AS science subjects). Is this good enough for Cambridge? or is Oxford easier? She got straight A in GCSE. Any advice? Many thanks.

[upthebracket]

Irregular, thank you for taking the time to explain all that. It is good to have that context, and does make it feel slightly less of a personal rejection. Perhaps we over-estimated how much scope individual admissions tutors have, probably due to stories of the 'I got in with a B' variety that are ancient history. I just know too many A level marking horror stories for my own good...

I have heard that the govt is considering introducing student loans for postgraduate study- I think you can already get it for a Master's- as a response to post- Brexit drop off in applications from the EU and the desire to preserve an important sector of the economy. But who knows?

Thank you for your good wishes.

[goodbyestranger]

The loans for postgrad are already in place, as from this year upthebracket, with Nick Clegg as architect, so nothing to do with Brexit. An Oxford Master's costs in the region of £24k and the maximum loan is £10k, so obviously for a lot of people that's still a real barrier.

Best wishes to your DD, the whole thing does sound horribly harsh in her case, with just a mark off in each of the three subjects.

[Carriemac]

My DD is doingHhistory , English and Maths, 10 As at GCSE, also EPQ on a law topic.
Her predictions are AAA /AAA hoping to do law and would like to try for at Oxford - plenty of work experience etc.
She is on the quiet side and i'm worried it may be too much stress for her this year

[GetAHaircutCarl]

carrie if she wants to give it a go, then I would encourage her, but do everything in your power to take the heat out of it.

Oxford is a great university, and the city is a fab place to live for a few years. but there are other great universities and cities .

Like anything competitive, there is a high chance of failure, which should take the pressure off. Roll the dice, do your best. End of.

[upthebracket]

Maybe do PQA once she has the grades and take a gap year? Actually wish slightly that my DD had done that- an Oxbridge application is a huge amount of preparation, a kick in the teeth if you don't get an offer and an almost unbearable amount of stress if you do. Maybe better to just concentrate on A levels and then go shopping with your purse. Good luck to your DD

[upthebracket]

Final thought then I will clear off and move on- my DD did AS maths and dropped it for A2 in favour of history. She has since regretted that, and in the light of the tightening of rules on remarks, thinks she would have got over the line if she had stuck with a less subjective subject like maths. I think 25% of maths entries get an A* at A2- for A2 history, I think it's something like 5%. If (and only if) your DC can do maths and is prepared to work and work again at it, I'd say stick with it.

[RhodaBull]

Some good words of wisdom here. I have seen in RL and on MN people getting way too excited about their dc's Oxbridge effort - telling grandparents, neighbours, Uncle Tom Cobley and all - and all of this is obviously going to heap terrible pressure on the hapless kid who is actually the one trying for a place. I'd urge anyone applying and their parents to take a long, hard look at the statistics, and let them sink in. No one can be complacent or even over-optimistic about getting a place.

[sendsummer]

my DD did AS maths and dropped it for A2 in favour of history. She has since regretted that
Understandable reaction in view of the 'what could have been' but surely her A2 choice was on the subject she preferred rather than focussed on grades for Oxbridge entry.
I do think humanities marking is problematic and error prone but do not see how it can be remedied. Even this year with reformed remarking I have know of one student who went from A to 100 UMS in a humanity when remarked. Does that make the student more able or successful in exams than with their original grade?
upthebracket IME often the best postgraduates are those who worked their best as undergraduates at non Oxbridge universities and truly like their subject rather than those for whom gaining an Oxbridge place was the summit of their relative academic achievement.

[goodbyestranger]

I'd be wary of setting out to get a first unless the student can get one relatively casually, because it's a horrible pressure and could mar the entire university experience.

[LadyPeterWimsey]

Just going back to the near misses thing, I was told by a reliable source that my DC's college was not accepting anyone who missed their grades this year because they had enough people who had made their offers.

My DC made their offer, but ironically missed the top grade in the subject they applied for. Fortunately the college hadn't specified an A* in a particular subject, thank goodness, because the A2 marks were very odd across the board and a remark wouldn't have helped because of the coursework moderation, and an unexpectedly poor mark in the exam paper.

So to repeat what was said above, it's often not so much about your marks but about the marks of the other offer-holders. For ambitious hard-working DC, this is often hard to hear!

[GetAHaircutCarl]

I would say that it is not just Oxbridge who are pretty inflexible about near misses (not totally - there is some give). Durham, LSE, Imperial are also known for standing their ground in this regard.

[BizzyFizzy]

DD is applying for Economics at Oxford, which I think has an A*AA requirement. She liked the look of the Oxford course more than the Cambridge one.

She is planning Oxford/Southampton or Southampton/Sussex (in the liklihood she doesn't get an Oxford interview).

[exexpat]

A friend of DS's missed his Oxford PPE offer (AAA) by one grade this year (got A*AB due to mucking up one science practical) and they rejected him. Harsh, but I presume they over-offered so had no wiggle room.

[upthebracket]

sendsummer Thank you for the postgrad info- that's really helpful. She does (awful phrase I know but true) love her subject, and for her that was the whole point of Oxford.

Would never advise someone to study an A2 just for Oxbridge-I can't see that ever working. Likewise the strategic application for courses that are perceived as less competitive. Contemporary of my DD applied for Theology last year on that basis, and had a torrid interview experience as a result. (Always really fancied the sound of ASNaC at Cambridge myself, but that's just me ...)

[Decorhate]

Hope the news tonight doesn't make her feel worse!

[upthebracket]

Decorhate she's been working in a library for the last six weeks and has gone to bed early as she's a bit weary so am keeping her away from it.Honest to God I am so frustrated for her I could spit.School are talking about an appeal for her in 'her' subject but it just feels like more pain for her with very little prospect of any gain. In any event she starts at her insurance in 12 days' time and I don't think it would be fair to blight her first weeks with an ill- founded appeal. Also having problems with SFE over her NI number but that's a whole different fox hunt. Would really just like things to go well for her now please. Enough already.

[sendsummer]

This ranking for Oxford reflect postgraduate, doctorate and postdoctoral research and reputation and are n't really anything to do with undergraduates. Obviously it is is nice to be in an university with high quality academics but I feel the real utility of that comes at a later stage.

[Decorhate]

Yes I think sometimes in life you just have to shut one door firmly & walk through a different one.

[upthebracket]

sendsummer thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to contextualise that - was starting to feel like the world was hitting me over the head with an Oxford-shaped hammer...

[user1474361571]

This ranking for Oxford reflect postgraduate, doctorate and postdoctoral research and reputation and are n't really anything to do with undergraduates.

And other rankings this year didn't put Oxford put first anyhow. QS put Oxford 6th, for example. I don't think anyone would take the precise order very seriously although the groups 1-20, 20-50, 50-100 tend to be pretty stable between various rankings. It could well be that the insurance university is also very well ranked in the world rankings.

[upthebracket]

user thank you for that, very much appreciated.Yes I think it is and I know that she is so lucky to have a place there. Much more importantly DD knows it too.All manner of things will be well.

[irregularegular]

Actually the ranking methodology includes teaching too. But otherwise, yes, these rankings are OK at picking out a group of leading universities, but the exact order is fairly meaningless.

www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/methodology-world-university-rankings-2016-2017

[ErrolTheDragon]

And then you have to consider the rankings by subject area too, which can be quite different.

[irregularegular]

Absolutely!

[sendsummer]

Actually the ranking methodology includes teaching too. Yes but teaching is a minor weighing for Oxford's top place this year.