Extracurricular activities for uni application

[Puzzledmum]

Hi, could you share what extracurricular activities did your DC in order to earn "brownie points" for their uni applications?
My DD has been doing music to a high level (since the age is 3) and is planning to do some volunteering next year.
I know they need to do something which will show they have leadership skills too and am trying to help her decide on what to do about it. But what else? What have your DC have on their CVs which helped them to secure a place at a good uni?

Sorry, maybe I'm being unclear.

What I'm getting at is: ladypeter offered an anecdote of how EC activities help, because her son's reference mentioned them alongside his good grades. But, an academic reading that might interpret the statement in different ways. They might think it's a great piece of evidence of the student using his time well - of course! But, there is also the chance that this student is someone who does rather too much.

Now, most students get similar grades for Oxbridge, so the worry is, is this student going to be one of those who got three A* grades, but then spent too much time at university doing the other things?

Because academics can't really know which possibility is more likely, and because they will be interviewing students who never had the opportunity to do some ECs, they will (I am fairly sure) not attach too much importance to this statement.

Tutors have used exactly this sort of thing as an icebreaker in several of my DCs' interviews LRD, so I think they might.

With respect, if something is ambiguous then you can't say definitively what its meaning is.

What I got from all the advice so far is that DC should do a lot of reading around the subject of interest and do out of school work which closely aligns with the subject they would like to study. Am I right? Everything else they do is for personal pleasure and development and will serve mainly as ice breaker at interviews but will be useful for American unis.
This brings me to my next question - if my DD wants to do computational psychology with linguistics- I'd imagine a programming course and extra language studies will be useful. Regarding the psychology aspect of it - what sort of EC would you recommend she does? Perhaps volunteering with young vulnerable people? Any other ideas?

LRD it's not lack of clarity on your part which is causing any confusion. You're making two separate points but have contradicted yourself on something to do with one of them - simples!

Fair enough on the icebreaker issue - I did say, I might be wrong, and can only judge based on my experiences.

I think you still haven't understood quite what I'm getting at with ambiguity. I have said that there are several meanings. That doesn't mean I don't know what they are. I, or any other academic, will be aware there are plural ways of interpreting the statement. This is not the same as 'not knowing what it means'. It is simply something that would make most people stop and think that maybe this isn't actually cast-iron proof that EC activities are helpful.

Where have I contradicted myself?

I think I should drop the semantics LRD so as not to bore others to death! Let's just leave it that you accept that there's more than one interpretation of the statement and what they are but that therefore you can't know its meaning (without further clarification).

Yes, I think you're into some kind of philosophy of meaning there. Personally, I tend to think that if you know a statement might mean two very different things, it is probably best to treat it as such. This isn't me 'contradicting myself'. It's me knowing that language isn't always terribly precise, and that statements schools make on behalf of pupils are worth taking with a pinch of salt.

I don't understand why private schools should be expected to reach out to state schools regarding university applications.

However, IME, admission tutor talks at schools tend to take place in one school in an area with neighbouring schools invited.

University fairs at a particular school are usually open to other schools in the area.

Though, if it helps your philosophical uncertainties, you might think about an equation with a solution of plus or minus two, yes? Both solutions, but there are two acceptable ones, not one, and it's not quite the same as throwing your hands up and saying 'I've no idea what these numbers and symbols mean'.

I have been to a number of open days with my DS and at every one they have said they don't use PS to choose between students. They look at predicted grades and unless the course is wildly oversubscribed if they think the student will make it most will offer.

A fair number have admitted when asked that dropping a grade wont necessarily mean the student gets turned down as over a certain grade barrier their numbers are no longer capped, so if they can take them they will.

My DP, who is an academic says they are completely uninterested as to whether little Johnny can ski, play an instrument, had a fab gap year volunteering or has done his DofE. The only time it might be relevant is if he has a real demonstrable interest or has built expertise in the area he wants to study. His POV is that weighting PS discriminates against the poorer already disadvantaged student who simply hasn't had the same opportunities.

So his advice would be to tell the DC to stop faffing around and start studying.

home you are so right and I felt so unable to help him bar proof reading his PS. I even posted on here about using a professional service as I thought i was letting him down.

haybott we went to all the open days but it was not something I even thought of asking. I can't even remember what DS put in his PS now.

What I got from all the advice so far is that DC should do a lot of reading around the subject of interest and do out of school work which closely aligns with the subject they would like to study. Am I right
Puzzlemum my advice at your DD's stage (starting year 11) is to read freely and widely what interests her and not just focus on what is perceived as useful from plans at this stage. She may have a completely different plan by the start of year 13 and too narrow a mindset could be counterproductive at this stage.
She also needs to gauge the amount of studying she needs to achieve high grades before embarking on extra studying.

elastamam 'faffing around' is rather important for a balance to studying even if not useful for degree admissions.

bizzyfizzy my point was that some schools have the contacts and the system set up to give loads of guidance and advice and could share that with schools that do not for the benefit of all the students. However as has been demonstrated on this and other threads teachers in some establishments either wash their hands of the matter entirely or are so ill informed they don't realise it

Why should they do that. Their job is to get their students into the right place.

There are plenty of great teachers in state schools who can make their own contacts.

Sendsummer many thanks, that is exactly what I shall encourage her to do!

I didn't think I was the one struggling with the concept of meaning LRD, but thank you anyway :)

Bizzy a number of the most elite independent schools are reaching out to state schools for social and moral reasons. No doubt for political reasons too, but that doesn't matter. It's good that they themselves feel an onus even if other people don't understand the reasons why.

"Bizzy a number of the most elite independent schools are reaching out to state schools for social and moral reasons."

Weeeeeellllllll. Rather more to try to justify their charitable status, but let's not quibble over trifles.

They do it, but it should not be an expectation.

As I have already said, my experience is that one school in an area hosts the university fairs and admission tour visits and invites all schools.

I don't really understand why state schools are not equipped to coach their own students themselves. All teachers have been to university. Why is there a belief that private schools have more knowledge? That really baffles me.

That's not what the charities commission is looking out for.

Bertrand I referred to the political as well. Would you rather they did nothing? I think pragmatism is a very useful thing.

This Sutton Trust report on Personal Statements might be of interest here: it addresses the issue that the advice applicants may be being given at school may not align well with what admissions tutors are looking for.

www.suttontrust.com/researcharchive/making-a-statement/

Sorry to have caused controversy! Should have said the EC might have helped his application, not that it did.

And of course, not in the sense that an interviewer might have been impressed that he was President of the Tiddleywinks Society*, etc etc (they asked nothing about all that at interview, as expected). I think the school were impressed that he could achieve the marks and throw himself into other stuff and thought it indicated potential. I hadn't thought the interviewers might read it otherwise!

*Tiddleywinks was, of course, hypothetical example.

I have no experience of university application from a state school, but I would have been more than happy for students at a state school to share the information we were given regarding applying to university at a private school. It was fairly average, to be frank. Both my DDs did a lot of extra curricular but only mentioned the relevant bits.

Also, it is of limited use to mention a load of seminars and subject days you have attended where your parents and school have ensured you take part and pay for it! This truly leaves poor students behind and should be ignored by admissions tutors. Students who have made the effort to enhance their life, even if they come from a poor background, should be applauded and their achievements should be recognised. Often this can only be done by school organised, free, activities, such as orchestra and sport, or ones that are close to home such as volunteering. Expensive jaunts to volunteer abroad should be discounted!

For some young people it is very difficult to attend subject days at Oxbridge! Who pays to get them there or even knows about it? Even our independent school didn't give out this info!