Extracurricular on UCAS - don't include everything?

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Careers advisor has told DD to take some of her extracurricular activities off her UCAS form. These are not in her personal statement, they are entered separately. She has qualifications in three areas that are eligible for UCAS points. Careers advisor says this detracts from her application as they distract from her academic grades. She is applying to universities who look at grades rather than points. Is this wise advice? Hoping an admission tutor will be able to comment.

In that exceptional case teacher, I'd probably include a sentence or two in the statement drawing attention to how the activity has given them skills that will apply in their chosen career (team leading, project planning, problem-solving, independent research or whatever). Basically, they will know that if (for example) the dc has a bronze Olympic medal for shotput then he /she is spending 5 hours a day training before and after school.

I have an applicant this year who, in addition to being a maths/computing whizz with lots of related EC, is also a Mandarin speaking (MFL) piano prodigy with a spectacular international debating track record. It's actually much easier to express his multidisciplinary passions in writing than as a list of qualifications.

People shouldn't get too hung up on EC's though. If DC enjoy them then that's great but they shouldn't do them if the sole reason is improve their ucas applications.

My 4 DC did some EC's but nothing the least bit 'impressive' and I don't think it made a jot of difference. They are all at good Unis doing STEM subjects or medicine. Maybe if they were doing different subjects it would have had more bearing.

You don't need to list the exams in the statement, there is a separate area where you input them all and the UCAS points are automatically added (DD put in all her vocational dance exams, music and LAMDA stuff), they don't need to take up any space in the P.S. and the activities can be referred to if relevant to the course or ignored as I rather suspect is the case

My view is that what are deemed 'extra-curricular' should simply be part of a well-rounded life. You know, hobbies? Things seriously pursued outside of formal education or employment. We should all have them.

Specific pursuits may be relevant for specific degrees: eg a dance exam for a Dance or Performing Arts degree, or a Music exam for a music degree at a conservatoire or professional training college.

Except that, IME, an RAD exam or a Trinity exam or whatever is actually not going to beat demonstration of talent & training at an audition.

Multi - this is all very theoretical for me as yet - DCs are 14 and 12, and I'm inclined to agree with you. DS's EC activities - football, jazz, table tennis - are ones that don't attract UCAS points. DD's - dance, more conventional music styles - do.

Both gain from their EC in similar ways (though DD's, because she is 'better' at dance than DS is at football, are more time consuming and thus have shaped her self-discipline and motivation to a greater degree) and it doesn't see right that DD should gain a couple of hundred UCAS points whereas DS has none. It seems to me, an ignoramus as yet in this area, that the transferable skills (e.g. leadership, negotiation, target-setting, dedication, creativity) that these EC have given them are much more valuable to them than the UCAS points, and feel 'happier' with them as a small amount of narrative in a personal statement than as 'numbers in a box'

To follow on from the last few points, the higher qualifications in music etc such as performing diplomas do not give UCAS points, there is therefore a ceiling to EC UCAS points despite even more time input and achievement.

teacher despite your DD's undoubted talents and achievements basically lots of bright DCs from supportive mumsnet MC families who juggle lots of activities to a very high level especially before sixth form. It is not differentiating of academic ability since there is no evidence of how much better a DC would be academically if they had not spent the time doing so much ECs.

View, I appreciate all of that, and don't expect either of my DC's EC activities to do any more than say that they do more than academic work, nor in any way compensate for any deficiencies in their future grades. I suppose what I'm wondering is whether a child who might get AAB while also doing a load of other stuff would be marginally preferred to an AAB candidate who did not. (Grades plucked out of the air, before you ask - no idea. She was a 3x level 6 student at the end of Year 6)

Based on my own experience 'back in the day', EC activities were included in personal statements IF the direct or transferable skills that they gave were relevant to the course or institution being applied for (so the fact that I sang in church choirs to a reasonably high level was relevant to an institution with a volunteer chapel choir, for example, and the fact I rang church bells and could compose peals was evidence of mathematical analytical ability relevant to my chosen course).

I realise that things have changed, and have remained on this thread to discuss how. I mention the example of DD because she is notably more organised, disciplined, committed etc than her equal-ability friends who do not have a 15-hour-a-week hobby - but I appreciate that by 17 they may all be like that, whereas at 12 she is unusual IYSWIM?

I was also wondering whether an AAB candidate who did lots which carried UCAS points (DD) would be marginally, or not at all, preferred to an AAB candidate who did lots that didn't carry UCAS points (DS), and whether the latter person would be in any way preferred to an AAB candidate who did nothing IYSWIM?

IMO, the answer to your question is 'it depends', rather unsatisfactory as it does not give clarity. It depends on the university, the subject admissions team, the policy of some people (who may have yet to be appointed) at the time your DCs apply. It depends on what other 'soft' factors are in the PS which may be interpreted as the student being a better academic candidate.

viewwater I know I'm stating the obvious but all students, unless they're very very sure of themselves, are applying for several universities each with their own criteria. It's fine to do a form aimed at Oxbridge only until you don't get in. I'd say - spread your favours.

Ok I've just missed the point entirely by reading only the last post . Lazy!

I've only skim read DD's form : I'm leaving it to the college to fine tune it as they have rather more experience than I
but it strikes me as silly to leave stuff out that shows you are a rounded individual
on the other hand its equally silly to mention it in the PS as well as in the list of qualifications (why use up words that are better applied to the degree subject, waffling about pointe class)

I was also wondering whether an AAB candidate who did lots which carried UCAS points (DD) would be marginally, or not at all, preferred to an AAB candidate

Can anyone suggest a course which (a) has a standard offer of AAB and (b) would not simply make offers out of central admissions to everyone whose predicted and past grades met a simple filter for "is likely to get AAB"? Why would you bother filtering applicants for an AAB course by time-consuming and subjective reading of personal statements when you could just up the offer to AAA and achieve the same effect for numbers, move up the league tables for admission, attract better candidates and still have time to get some work done?

Ricardian - midwifery, nursing, pharmacy etc. - the personal statement is very important as is the interview process.

Ah, I didn't realise that Pharmacy tended to interview: my university doesn't offer it, unfortunately.

Ricardian we do it in tbe programme I teach in. We also do a (comparatively) lengthy selection process.

Some universities give far more information about their selection process than others, stating in their entrance requirements how much weighting they give to the personal statement in each subject (eg Bristol).

I love Bristol's admissions statements, Eastpoint. So very helpful to applicants.

But it's really important that people understand that extra curricular activities that are not directly related to the course you want to study carry no weight at all for University admissions. If you think about it, it would be wildly unfair if they did. There is so much duff information given on this subject. Grades are what matter.

bertrand I don't think it's quite that straight forward.

The least selective universities are actually the most open to accepting UCAS points gained outside academic qualifications.

In addition a careful student can use EC activities to their advantage by tailoring it accordingly. For example my DD's voluntary work as part of DofE would be very useful for any medical applicant ( which most of her fellow volunteers are).

Sorry- that's what I meant by being relevant to the course. I missed out "or can be pitched that way". My own dd's personal statement was a masterpiece of bullshit about how her passion for drama had made her organised and good at time management and sensitive to nuance in a way that made her ideally suited to reading philosophy........Don't know whether it helped her at all, but I was impressed!

Bertrand - that just isn't true. ECs can be very important indeed when applying for courses that are not school subjects. Interest and commitment are easy to demonstrate with judicious insights into EC experiences. An applicant I helped (who had an appalling school history) wrote an amazingly insightful PS based on her intellectual experience of participation in music groups and team sports. She got great offers.

Depends on how competitive the course I guess.

As has been said up thread most departments deal with admissions administratively for the majority of applications.

That said I know several young people who were offered sports scholarships and unconditionals so I assume someone read their PS!

And then I have some colleagues who I know refuse to read the PS for the reasons you mention.

I read them. But then I am very nosy.

I suspect that a good rule of thumb for any young person is give the PS your very best attention but don't turn it into a huge Thing! It isn't.

Oh and check what the school are sending out. Some schools send out really poor stuff without the important elements. And check the predicted grades are in the right ball park.

Yes. Relevant to the course or can be pitched that way.