choral scholarships at Oxbridge?

[roisin]

Have you been down this application route with dc? Successful or not?
ds2 is considering it as a possibility. He's in yr11 now.

I think he does need to prepare for the auditions, so I would look for a teacher. Lots of very musical young people apply from the top musical schools who choose their candidates carefully and some have musicians in the family. Don't go for the most prestigious with recordings etc as there is much greater competition! Lots of candidates will be reading music! The Eton Choral course is not vital but he will meet like minded young people and enjoy some top class singing with 8 parts. My DD went to a girls school so had never sung with young men before! She really enjoyed the whole week and it does no harm!

Sorry I meant to add that DD had done both grade 8 Musical Theatre and Associate Board... I forget the full title. I am not sure if these exams mean anything or not, but it did show she had worked at her singing, was versatile and had stuck with it. She was also her school Choir Leader so had worked closely with the music teachers on the choir tour, repertoire and Choir PR to get new recruits! All of this came in handy.

Of course exams mean something. They may not be directly relevant but they still show attainment and that a certain standard has been reached. I get quite annoyed when people who don't have the exams (or whose DC don't) claim they aren't well regarded. It's not true, it's also rude. You can be a fabulous musician without taking exams, and you can be a wonderful singer without taking exams, but that doesn't mean exams are worthless.

It's also possible to get a choral Exhibition at some colleges. I joined my college choir at the end of first year - had never done any serious choral stuff before, but had sung in a few smaller groups and wanted something regular so it was a fairly simple audition - voice tests, sight reading, sing a piece. Much less stressful than the scholarship auditions. After a year, at the start of my 3rd year I was awarded a choral Exhibition, so the financial benefits of a scholarship but without the stress of the whole extra application process. If he's interested in singing but not certain if there might be other interests he's like to try in the early student days, that might be worth remembering.

I ended up marrying a chap I met in chapel choir (I was on Dec, he was on Can... ) and still have many very good friends from that time. I miss evensong!

Gently Benevolent: I think voice exams are not so highly regarded as other instruments, though?

Roisin you are wrong. They are just as highly regarded.

By whom? Students I know who study voice and other instruments have passed gr8 voice with distinction having taken no earlier voice exams; and say it's considerably easier than, say, grade 6 piano.

Their very experienced teacher, who is passionate about singing, agrees. gr8 voice indicates a certain level of performance and ability, but it's simply not comparable with, say gr8 trombone or gr8 violin.

Scales don't exist; the aural tests are identical to other instruments, so should be very easy for a decent singer; the sight reading is very basic at all levels.

I had not done any graded singing exams (and still haven't). I didn't go around asking the other choristers if they had G8 singing, but I would imagine only the ones reading Music did.

roisin - I suggest your son tries to prepare for one of exams so you know how much work he has to put in and how he does

he will have to prepare 5 songs from different style of singing for Musical theatre exam grade 8 my daughter is taking in few weeks time and act them, not only sing

is that music teacher who you're quoting teaching or examining singing?

Well, my multiple grade 8 holding DD doesn't think her singing grade 8 is any less of an achievement than her other grade 8s, especially since the singing exam requires all the songs to be memorised, and requires singing in foreign languages. Also, unaccompanied singing is much more tricky than unaccompanied playing, certainly unaccompanied wind instrument playing anyway. As for who else believes the standards are as high - well, ABRSM and Trinity, the conservatoires and the universities for a start. But hey, if it's so easy why don't you or your son sit the exam and then you can spout your opinions on an informed instead of a completely uninformed basis.

My DC did have a choral scholarship at Cambridge til recently at a college with a three service a week commitment. he got an awful lot out of it: it added structure to the week, it provided free formal halls, it paid for singing lessons with a wonderful teacher, it improved his sight reading beyond recognition, it gave a slightly different group of friends from his main (subject based) friends, and they went on an annual tour, normally abroad, which was a great bonus.

Of his co-choristers, some had grade 8 and diploma level singing, and some had no exams to their name, but often had been in choirs throughout their schooling. I don't know that having the exam would make a difference, as really it is about how the singer auditions and how well they will blend into the choir. However, music exams do show a certain standard is reached and are certainly not a bad thing.

The negative side is the application process : because you apply for the choral scholarship before you have a place (at Oxford), or pre-audition (at Cambridge) quite a lot of time is spent on this process and it can be very disappointing to get the promise of the scholarship, and then not to get a place at the University. The choral trials take a good deal of preparation, and a chunk of time out the beginning of the Autumn term.

So, if you think he is good enough to have a good chance of getting in to the University, then it is well worth applying. Work on his sight singing.

Think about sending your DS on an Eton Choral Course this summer - I cannot recommend it more highly : they are great fun, and give you a good feel for whether you might like the life of a choral scholar, and for what the audition process might be like. The teaching is fabulous and the social side is great.

DD enjoyed spending three days at Oxford in September. It was very motivating for her.

She was offered a scholarship subject to getting an academic offer.

Unfortunately, she didn't get offered a place. None of the people she met at during the choral auditions were offered a place.

I'm never going to be the parent of a choral scholar but this thread is very interesting. The application process seems very inefficient and potentially cruel if dcs in the aftermath of it don't get an academic offer.

Possibly I'm being dim but couldn't new offer holders go to the universities say towards the end of Lent term for the assessments?

Wouldn't do Musical Theatre exams if you're applying for a choral scholarship, not the right sort of music at all ... and Grade 8 singing sight reading very basic? Methinks not ... (and I've got a PhD in music).

I did g6 piano and g8 voice at the same time. Certainly at that time g8 voice was a proper, rigorous g8 standard exam. By contrast g6 piano was a piece of piss.

What ABRSM grades show is that you have been taught technique - how to sing the usual languages (from French, Italian, Latin, German), how to manage breathing, how to sing at sight, then also phrasing, volume, etc.

It proves nothing about the quality of the instrument itself, I suppose, and you could have all the techniques without the paperwork, just as you could be fluent in Spanish as a second language without a Spanish A Level.

It still is a proper rigorous exam. DD1 did it last term and found it much more challenging than her other grade 8s for the reasons mentioned above (and she is an excellent singer). The range of styles required alone makes it challenging, before you bring in the memory, foreign language, unaccompanied piece considerations. I think it's exceedingly arrogant and rude for someone to slag off singing exams when they clearly know nothing about them. As I said before - perhaps those who think it's a piece of piss should try taking it, and see what they think then.

Grade 8 singing is a very demanding exam, and a very significant attainment by anyone. My DS found it easier than his instrumental Grade 8's, but to a degree I think that was because he took singing later than his instrumental ones, and had two grade 8s behind him when he took it.

However different music teachers feel differently as to how grade exams fit into their teaching. My DS's most advanced instrument is with a teacher who doesn't feel grade exams are necessary and doesn't put her pupils through them. His other teacher is very assiduous about taking them all and the pupils all do very well. The outcomes are very similar - the method of assessment is different.

Certainly for auditions it is all about the child and their singing, and their commitment to it. It sounds like Roisin's son has the right sort of interests and experience which will count for a lot. Loving English choral music will get you a long way.

Go to the choral open days - they are very interesting and will give you guidance about application.

You can also ask to sing to Music Directors at colleges to see if you are the right sort of person. My DS sang to a Cambridge music director who was very encouraging in the summer of year 12, and was useful about steering him to the right college for his style of singing.

Also some colleges will allow you to come and sing with their choir for a rehearsal and a service during the year. My DS also did this (at Queen's Oxford - they advertise it on their web site) : it was fun and gave him the chance to talk to current scholars (they give you dinner with the choir if you want), and find out more about it.

Sorry - this is my second very long post. Just trying to be encouraging because it is very worth while if it all works out.

Sorry, I didn't intend to offend anyone. I must have been mistaken about voice exams.

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. I'll focus on finding a singing teacher for him next term; there seems to be a real lack in this particular area. The only singing teachers seem to be focused on girls, musical theatre and/or X-factor-style pop wannabes.

Here is the link for the taster sessions at Queens College, Oxford, mentioned by the previous poster.

It is definitely worth your DS doing one of them, if you can mange to get there. DD did it and was very inspired.

I was in the Queens Chapel choir! It wasn't my college though (my college didn't have one). :) Happy memories.

Ah sorry - I was in the Cambridge one! Didn't follow the link till after I had posted.

Many thanks: that's really helpful.

DD has Musical Theatre Grade 8 and was offered a Choral Scholarship. As I said earlier, it is a major commitment to singing and shows you are versatile. She worked on her singing for years and did not just wing it after a few months! Why are some of you so snooty? My DD actually got the Choral Scholarship and got into the university!!!

MillyMollyMama - people who are snotty about Musical theatre exams think that Classical singing/exams/performances is more sophisticated.

Musicals => entertainment for lower classes