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Flick Drummond MP: I don’t believe that GCSEs are the right way to assess our children now they are remaining in education and training until 18

176 replies

JuliaMumsnet · 29/03/2022 11:29

Flick has been the Member of Parliament for Meon Valley since December 2019. She is also a Parliamentary Private Secretary (PPS) in the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP). Flick has been a school governor at Milton Park Primary School in Portsmouth and has a keen interest in education.

"I don’t believe that GCSEs are the right way to assess our children now they are remaining in education and training until 18. When young people left school at 16 and went into work then I could see the rationale behind having exams at that age but not now. This is something I am passionate about. I fear too many of our children are being left behind by a narrowly focused inflexible exam conveyor belt that tests memory and does not allow children the flexibility to choose to study what will be useful to them in their careers.

As a former lay Ofsted inspector and school governor, I have seen first-hand how many children are disengaged and set up to fail by high stakes GCSE exams, not to mention the disruption and damage to mental wellbeing that comes from something that is now nothing more than a milepost for young people as they move into adulthood.
Wouldn’t it be better to have a 14-18 curriculum?

I have made these points several times now. In summer 2020, I wrote a report on 4-18 education for the One Nation Conservatives along with Cherilyn Mackrory who concentrated on early years. You can read that report here.

And last week I put the reasoning behind my views further during a debate in parliament. You can see my speech here.

The government is not with me at the moment but I am hopeful this will change. Many in education are starting to take the same view as mine. But most importantly, I would like to take the opportunity to hear the views of Mumsnet users.

I have two recommendations. The first is on the extended school day and the second is a 14-18 curriculum without the interruption of GCSEs at 16.

The extended school day is being looked at by the government and many schools are already doing it within existing budgets. It makes sense because the majority of families have both parents working and childcare is expensive. An extended school day is about bringing in those activities which cannot be normally fitted into a school day. Subjects like music, art, drama and various clubs. It is not to say that music, art and drama are not academic subjects but many young people, especially those from disadvantaged backgrounds, cannot fit them into a school day, or their family cannot afford after school clubs.

Enriching the curriculum and school day will have a big impact on the breadth of knowledge and engage those who struggle in other lessons. Where it is already in place, teachers do their marking and preparation time during the day and go home to enjoy family time or other activities rather than school work. It is a better use of school buildings too.

The other area that I would like your views on is assessment. Just over 600,000 young people take GCSEs each year and around 200,000 do not pass at Grade 4 and above - a huge number.

I am not against exams or assessment but would it not be better to have a ‘school leaving certificate’ or portfolio, or whatever we want to call it, which would show whether the young person had achieved the standard in either academic, vocational, apprenticeship or a combination of any of them including a transcript of what else they have achieved like the National Citizen Service or the Duke of Edinburgh’s award?

Any diploma or certificate would include English and Maths until 18 but would make sure that the content is relevant to whatever the young person is interested in to engage them. High stakes exams like GCSEs do not give schools and young people these options.

As I said, these ideas are gaining traction. There are five commissions in the same vein, three have been published - the House of Lords Commission, the Independent Assessment Commission funded by the NEU and the Times Commission - and there are more to come.
Each will come from a different approach and I am sure that we will not all agree with every recommendation but I think one of the areas that we can all agree on is that we need a broad, knowledge-based education system that sets up a life-long love of learning and gives the skills that will help young people tackle whatever is thrown in their way.

It should be a curriculum that engages. I have been impressed by University Technical Colleges (UTCs) which have a 14-18 curriculum that motivates young people who are interested in a more technical education - most go onto read engineering or science at university or go into higher level apprenticeships straight from school. They also have an extended school day until 4.30pm when teachers go home without any work.

The other important point, as the House of Lords and Times commission have found, is that ‘skills gaps and shortages are clearly a major drive of youth unemployment and damage labour market productivity’. The Times Commission’s interim report was very focused on asking employers what they are looking for and they would agree that young people are not coming out of education with life skills that help in the workplace. The Department for Education’s Employers’ Skill Survey’s findings from the CBI and other organisations like the World Economic Forum all point to employers looking for skills like problem solving, communication, self-management, team working, creativity, numeracy and digital skills. These are not soft skills that come at the expense of knowledge. Knowledge is only useful where individuals have the skills to interpret and communicate it.

Lastly, but just as important is the mental health of young people. Professor Sarah-Jayne Blakemore, Professor of Psychology and Cognitive Neuroscience at Cambridge University, has done a huge amount of research into how teenage brains develop. She says high stakes exams put a huge pressure and stress on teenagers, reducing motivation during a critical time of development. The yearly Children’s Society’s Good Childhood Report raised young people’s mental health as an issue. In 2018, children (aged 15) in the UK had the greatest fear of failure and the lowest life satisfaction in school of children across 24 European countries. The 2021 report found that school, friendships and appearance continue to cause the greatest dissatisfaction in adolescence. And in the Children’s Commissioner’s Big Ask Survey, young people highlighted that high stakes exams or assessment related stress remains a significant concern to them.

It would be great to hear what you think!"

Flick Drummond MP: I don’t believe that GCSEs are the right way to assess our children now they are remaining in education and training until 18
OP posts:
user1497207191 · 29/03/2022 11:34

Yep, nail on head. There's just no need for GCSEs at age 16 for most children these days. As she says, in the past, kids left school and got jobs at 16 so some kind of effective "school leaving" exams were useful. But now so many go onto further education at 16, they've lost their use.

Teacher assessments would be just as useful as a "passport" for entry into further education which is basically what GCSE's have become, with maybe optional school-leaving exams (literacy & numeracy) for those wishing to leave education at 16 and go into jobs.

borntobequiet · 29/03/2022 12:00

There are a great many people on Mumsnet with very decided views on education so I expect this thread will fill up fast with helpful, well-considered suggestions.

parietal · 29/03/2022 12:00

extended school day is a great idea but it needs more playtime and structured play (e.g. sport / drama / clubs etc) for all ages. just sitting in lessons is not good for kids and too many children are overscheduled and don't have time to just play. Time to explore the world is essential for child development.

In Iceland, all teens get a budget of about £300 per year to spend on afterschool activities (sport / clubs) - they have a free choice of activities from 100s of registered clubs like music / drama / arts / etc. apparently it has reduced teen crime and addiction and helped mental health. It sounds like a great model for the UK.

a coordinated 14-18 curriculum sounds great, especially if it is has more breadth than a-levels. just 3 subjects at a-level is very narrow - IB is much better.

one worry about dropping GSCE - if there is no formal nationwide assessment before age 18, how will university offers be made? either there would have to be a post a-level offer system (which has been discussed many times & never works) or what? If there is only teacher-assessment, you can be sure there will be massive grade inflation in the private schools wanting to get kids into Oxbridge etc.

user1497207191 · 29/03/2022 12:34

@parietal

if there is no formal nationwide assessment before age 18, how will university offers be made?

I thought Unis worked on predicted A level grades? So basically, teacher assessment.

borntobequiet · 29/03/2022 13:06

Education works best when left to teachers in partnership with parents, is minimally interfered with by politicians and is regarded as preparation for life rather than primarily as a preparation for university study.
The Conservative reforms towards the end of the last century had many good elements (I’m not a Conservative supporter). They introduced a National Curriculum and clear standards. SATs were useful for tracking pupil progress through Key Stages (though initially the system was unwieldy and unmanageable). However it was undermined by becoming a means of assessing schools rather than pupils. This led to detrimental practices in schools, such as teaching to the test, and unnecessary stress and distress on teachers and students alike. Targets added to these pressures.
Reintroduce a streamlined “light touch” National Curriculum applying to all maintained schools and academies. (You will know it’s any good if independents start to use it too - many did so with the better elements of the NC). Replace the multitude of (horrendously expensive) exam boards by one, with input from all sectors - HE, business, industry, all those who have an interest. Reintroduce “detoxified” SATs in Years 3, 6, 9 and 11. The Y11 SAT could be the equivalent of the old school certificate, with scores/grades in core and non-core subjects, alike. These SATs should be used only to track progress, not to assess schools. There are many ways to judge the effectiveness of schools other than by (frequently flawed) data. Assess non-core subjects over all stages by short, scheduled exams and extended work. These exams and tasks could be generated by the exam board at various levels and complexities to enable students of any ability to demonstrate what they can do. They could be scheduled by schools to suit. (This already happens with “on-demand” exams used in vocational subjects in FE.)
By all means extend the school day, but make it such that schools are civilised places, with lunch breaks actually long enough to eat and do activities. Give schools enough money to supervise these breaks properly so behaviour isn’t a problem. Make sure that transport is funded so that pupils (for example in rural schools) can access after school activities and get home afterwards.
There is sense in some form of assessment at 16. It’s an age where young people are often through the major turmoil of puberty and start thinking about the future. It can help focus young people through those difficult years. But it’s true the current system of GCSEs is hugely expensive, unwieldy, stressful and time consuming.

borntobequiet · 29/03/2022 13:09

I forgot. Value teachers and give them the respect, time, tools and other resources they need to do their jobs properly, including safe environments that meet at least minimum workplace standards.

noblegiraffe · 29/03/2022 13:11

Hi Flick,

I just read your 4-18 education report and have some concerns.

Re the extended school day: You admit that it is unlikely that the government would fund this, and in fact we know that they have already refused to fund this as it was part of Sir Kevan Collins' covid-catch up proposal that was rejected by your government causing him to resign in disgust. Your solution is that parents should contribute to costs and justify this with the argument that they are already paying for childcare.

Your proposal is that the extended 9-5 school day should start from Y4. This would presumably continue to age 18, however once pupils are in secondary school, most parents do not pay for wraparound childcare as their children are capable of being at home by themselves. This is even more true now that some parents are working from home. Your suggestion, therefore, involves a majority of parents who do not pay for wraparound childcare now being forced to pay for after school childcare in the form of an extended school day 'in order to fit in with their working patterns' that they do not need.

Do you think that this will be acceptable to parents?

Your proposal to extend the school day till 5 in order to incorporate extra curricular activities will severely impact current providers of after school activities. The gymnastics groups, the swimming lessons, the brownies and cubs. Many schools do not have the facilities to offer the wide range of activities offered by specialists, and specialists who generally draw their customers from a wide range of schools would have to consider restricting themselves to, at most a handful of schools, reducing the number of children who can access their offer. Would we get the Olympic rower trained if they are stuck at their school till 5 doing some other activity that their parents are being forced to pay for? Given that the longer school day is assumed as part of some of your other suggestions, I assume there will be no opting out. If it's opt-in, haven't you just come up with 'after-school club'?

BellatrixOnABadDay · 29/03/2022 13:24

*Your proposal is that the extended 9-5 school day should start from Y4. This would presumably continue to age 18, however once pupils are in secondary school, most parents do not pay for wraparound childcare as their children are capable of being at home by themselves. This is even more true now that some parents are working from home. Your suggestion, therefore, involves a majority of parents who do not pay for wraparound childcare now being forced to pay for after school childcare in the form of an extended school day 'in order to fit in with their working patterns' that they do not need.

Do you think that this will be acceptable to parents?

*My children are only 9 and 7 but I don't pay for wraparound childcare. I'm fortunate in that sense in one regard as we live with my parents and they are able to pick them up from school. I also work from home now most days.

I'm not so fortunate in the sense that I live here because I left my abusive ex, lost my home and am now a single parent.

There is no way I would support or quietly accept being forced to pay for wraparound childcare in the form of a longer school day, childcare which I do not need and which my ex would undoubtedly not contribute a penny towards.

noblegiraffe · 29/03/2022 13:37

Re abolishing GCSEs:

I have been impressed by University Technical Colleges (UTCs) which have a 14-18 curriculum that motivates young people who are interested in a more technical education - most go onto read engineering or science at university or go into higher level apprenticeships straight from school. They also have an extended school day until 4.30pm when teachers go home without any work.

How deeply have you looked into the UTC programme? Did you just like the idea of them? Even Michael Gove admitted that they've been a complete failure. Many of them had to close due to lack of students and terrible exam results. www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/02/14/technical-colleges-failure-admits-former-education-secretary/

As for a proposal to completely shake-up the entire school system AGAIN, please just leave schools alone for a bit. PLEASE. We only just had a complete shake-up of the entire school system a few years ago with Gove completely rewriting the curriculum and reforming both GCSEs and A-levels. We're crawling out the other side of a pandemic that has left schools devastated and we are trying to pick up the pieces of being effectively abandoned by your government with no funding, no support, with teachers and heads being routinely lambasted in the press, egged on by your party and leader. Headteachers talk about how the relationship between government and schools has completely broken down and is in urgent need of repairing. Lumping a whole new pile of poorly-thought out initiatives on our desks that need to be implemented before the next General Election will not improve this.

If you want to make an easy and quick fix to 16-18 education which will broaden pupils' education, bring back the AS level system that was working perfectly well before your government binned it. A-level students used to take 4 subjects in Y12 and now largely they only take 3.

And stop the proposals to bin well-respected BTECs because your government wants to force students to take T-levels.

We don't have the maths teachers for all pupils per your proposal to take maths till 18. We don't even have the maths teachers to teach pupils maths till 16. Have you read any of the many reports into maths education and the reasons behind why maths isn't already compulsory to 18 in England?

Your party has gutted schools. Underfunded, overworked, seen as the solution for all ills. Lack of funding for social care, SEND, mental health, it has all been pushed onto schools who already couldn't cope with their stated aim of teaching kids maths, English, science.

If you are interested in improving schools, then the solution is not cosy armchair commentary about curriculum reform or longer school days, it's to start campaigning within your government to sort out the mess that they have made of education over the last decade. Ask teachers what they need. Binning GCSEs is not high on the list.

Hercisback · 29/03/2022 14:02

Just over 600,000 young people take GCSEs each year and around 200,000 do not pass at Grade 4 and above - a huge number.

Do you understand how a normal distribution curve works? This is what's supposed to happen.

A longer school day is not something many people really want. I don't want to pay for clubs for my children when they could be elsewhere for free. Teachers can't staff it, we're already working a lot of hours. Where would you like us to fit meetings, marking, planning?

I'd rather you spent money on youth services and decent MH support.

noblegiraffe · 29/03/2022 14:55

@JuliaMumsnet aren't guest posts usually stickied?

noblegiraffe · 29/03/2022 19:46

This thread has disappeared out of sight...bit odd to have a guest blog inviting MNetters' opinions and then hide it?

jkrfan · 29/03/2022 19:50

Doing well in O'Levels (GCSE equivalent then) at 16 is what made me realise I did have the potential to go to University. Waiting till 18 to do serious exams is too late.

JuliaMumsnet · 30/03/2022 10:59

[quote noblegiraffe]@JuliaMumsnet aren't guest posts usually stickied?[/quote]
Hi @noblegiraffe - we're pinning this around site from today so it didn't get lost among our big push on telemedical abortion (which is getting voted on today).

OP posts:
pointythings · 30/03/2022 11:07

I'm with everything noblegiraffe has said.

Your party has done its bit to devastate schools. Hands off and leave things to settle. I'm so glad my kids are out of it.

MyDcAreMarvel · 30/03/2022 11:13

Extended school day is a terrible idea, children need family time.

TeenPlusCat · 30/03/2022 11:19

I also agree with a lot of what noblegiraffe has said.

Specifics for me:

  • extended school day sounds great in theory but in practice my daughter could barely cope with a normal school day
  • the new GCSEs are massively stressful for less academic kids, if the pandemic hadn't hit and scuppered my DD the exam load for her would have done
  • Why are you mucking about with BTECs? What are you leaving for kids who work well practically but don't manage exams

What schools need is
a) more funding
b) more stability of curriculum
c) CAMHS to be properly funded so schools aren't having to deal with MH crises all over the place

Plus - why not let schools put everyone in for L2 functional skills in maths & English and only then go for GCSEs if these are passed?

isittheholidaysyet · 30/03/2022 11:41

Longer school day? It's too bloody long as it is, especially at primary age.
Kids come home knackered and ready to have mummy/daddy hugs and crash on the sofa.

I send my kids to school far too early and far too long already. I'm not paying for them to do compulsory after school activities. They do after school activities as they wish and with whom they wish. Not stuck in the bully fest which is school.

Family time is essential, without it kids mental health is wrecked.

As for the getting rid of GCSEs thing. Might work, but how would it work for home educated children. Many of whom missed out on GCSEs during the pandemic.
And how would it work for those children who struggle with school and their teachers, but do a lot of tutoring/work at home and then are really successful at the exams, to the great surprise of the school?

Borka · 30/03/2022 12:03

I'm strongly opposed to a longer school day. My son is autistic and finds the school environment stressful - he can just about cope with a normal length day but desperately needs down time afterwards.

Interestingly a local secondary school that has an extended day considering changing to a normal length day because they're struggling with staff retention.

Grimed · 30/03/2022 12:15

My children are home educated so my knowledge of the school system is massively limited however I really like the idea of school children having more time to follow their interests with less academic pressure. Kids who have passions tend to be focused on getting to university because they know what they like having had plenty of time to experiment with different things.

saggyhairyass · 30/03/2022 12:30

The amount of pressure my Y10 girl feels from her teachers is my primary concern. Her maths teacher in particular wants her students to revise for two hours every evening, with no consideration for DD's other subjects. It causes a pressure cooker at home, and she frequently explodes with anger. I have said to this teacher that yes, attainment is important but DD needs her social life, her hobbies and time to devote to her other GCSEs too. My DD's mental health means more to me than the difference between a grade 8 or 9.

But apart from that, GCSEs are so narrow in focus and repetitive. In English, DD has revisited her set texts too many times and is bored of it. She isn't encouraged to "read around" any subjects, just parrot the right answers to get results. She reads novels and feminist theory outside of school, plus she loves art history, but at school, as long as she writes down the "right answer" (and not formulate an opinion of her own) she is deemed to do well.

I think a much broader curriculum assessed continuously would be a better way to go, in preparation for the more specialised A levels or apprenticeship schemes offered post 16. No exams, but a richer, wider focus. English, History and RE keep repeating themselves over and over again in order to achieve results, when instead we should allow students to find joy and a sense of discovery in their learning. Why is my DD's RE only focused on Christianity and Islam? Why not find out the rich cultures and history of places via the grand Temples, Gurdwaras and synagogues of the world? My daughter has learned more about religion from National Geographic than school!

user1497207191 · 30/03/2022 12:36

@saggyhairyass

She isn't encouraged to "read around" any subjects, just parrot the right answers to get results.

Exactly! My DS's school actually used the CGP workbooks as their text/exercise books so the entire GCSE courses was based around working backwards from past exam questions (using the answers as per marking scheme), rather than actually exploring the subject with "proper" traditional text books. Being taught only to pass a test is soul destroying and doesn't give the pupil any proper insight into the subject matter - it's just parrot learning.

museumum · 30/03/2022 13:18

I just want to say that many families choose “out of school” clubs for sport, music, drama scouting etc specifically because they are not based in the same location, environment and cohort of children as school.
My children gain a lot from activities with other adults and other children entirely away from school.

Spindelina · 30/03/2022 14:01

@museumum

I just want to say that many families choose “out of school” clubs for sport, music, drama scouting etc specifically because they are not based in the same location, environment and cohort of children as school. My children gain a lot from activities with other adults and other children entirely away from school.
Related to this, a cohort example: for me, as a teenager, music was my opportunity to have a mixed-sex social life, with school being girls only. That was great (both single sex school and mixed sex extracurricular). I can imagine some pupils at co-ed schools will value single-sex extracurricular activities.
Foxyloxy1plus1 · 30/03/2022 15:05

It’s infinitely depressing that these people continue to fail to recognise that the people who know best what works, are those actually doing it. Having a keen interest in education and having been a primary school governor, does not qualify anyone to pontificate on new initiatives.

How any teacher remains in the profession is beyond me.

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