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Guest post: “When we hear about birth we often hear two very distinct stories”

81 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 08/07/2019 14:48

If you’ve had a difficult birth in the past, or are preparing to give birth at the moment, you may want to read this post with someone you feel able to talk to about any feelings that arise.

When we hear about birth we often hear two very distinct stories – that it’s either terrible, or wonderful. People talk about birth ‘horror stories’ that leave women and their families suffering, or they talk about the beautiful empowering experience of birth. When we talk in such dichotomies, there’s little room for those in the middle whose experience is often a little bit terrible and a little bit wonderful (and sometimes a little bit exciting and a little bit terrifying and at times even pretty boring). This can leave many people feeling unable to talk openly about their experiences – and whether birth is terrible, wonderful, or somewhere in the middle, we know that it can leave a huge impact on us. It’s the entryway into our parenting experience, and if we come out feeling that it hasn’t gone the way we had hoped, it can mean the start of that journey is complicated.

A year ago, I set up an organisation called Make Birth Better with my colleague psychiatrist Dr Rebecca Moore. We’d noticed this black and white way of talking about birth and wanted to provide a platform to showcase the wide variety of stories and experiences that exist around birth – from both parents, healthcare and birth professionals. We also noticed how few birth stories exist from people who, research shows, might face additional stigma from maternity services such as Black and Minority Ethnic women, same sex couples, trans individuals, non gender conforming people, those with physical or learning disabilities, women living with disadvantages. It’s only by showing how varied birth can be that we can start to speak about every kind of birth story.

Over the past year, we’ve met with women, partners and professionals to ask them what they felt could make birth better. While often antenatal education and stories about birth focus on the women or birthing person’s responsibility to educate and empower themselves, we heard stories about how ineffective preparation can feel when you enter a system which is, in itself, traumatised. Overstretched and overstressed maternity services can feel like they are reactive, rather than proactive, with midwives often dealing with more than one person in labour simultaneously, without time for a loo break let alone to learn about a person’s birth plans.

We’ve started to create a new story around birth. One which includes not only the woman or birthing person and her partner, but also the staff who will travel that journey with a family. And if we’re to include staff, we also need to include the systems that exist around them – the teams which support them, the organisations which treat them with either kindness or blame. If we begin to see birth not as a solo affair but a collaboration between all of these different layers of the system, then we can create a new narrative. That includes all of us too, of course. So that we not only share the different and varied birth experiences that we have (being mindful of any parts that could be emotive), but we ask to hear others’ experiences too. Then we can hear about births that are neither horror stories or fairytales, neither black or white, but full of colour.

If you’re reading this currently preparing for birth, do take a look at the online resources at www.makebirthbetter.org and take a look at the Positive Birth Movement, Association for Improvements in Maternity Services & Birthrights. If you’re reading this and you think you might have some symptoms of trauma following your birth, do take a look at those resources too as well as the Birth Trauma Association who have an active peer support group on Facebook.

Emma’s new book ‘Why Birth Trauma Matters’ (Pinter & Martin) is published on 11 July.

EDITED BY MNHQ Emma will now be coming back on Thursday at midday

OP posts:
QueenofallIsee · 09/07/2019 19:10

I won’t be any part of an organisation that ADDS to the female biological experience being sidelined - language matters and is contributing to a serious threat to our sex based protected rights.

Women discriminated against due to be the sex that carry children. Men aren’t. Birthing Person!? Seriously?

OldIrishTERF · 09/07/2019 19:23

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SarahAndQuack · 09/07/2019 19:32

This is so deeply tiresome.

I can't help wondering if the mafia who descend on threads to turn every issue into a trans issue are, in fact, trans activists in deep cover, trying to represent anyone with concerns about trans issues as a bunch of idiots.

OldIrishTERF · 09/07/2019 19:42

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SarahAndQuack · 09/07/2019 19:45

No, you're right, the most important thing is definitely that we make sure this is covered in posts about transgender people. We wouldn't want to act like birth trauma is an actual important thing, would we?

The mind boggles at people who claim to be feminists, and whose definition of feminism is pretty closely connected to reproductive biology, but who think that issues of language are far more important than birth trauma.

StarWanderer · 09/07/2019 19:46

Birthing person?! Jeez... Hmm

coral13 · 09/07/2019 20:03

@Sarahandquack could not agree more if I tried!

OldIrishTERF · 09/07/2019 20:08

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SarahAndQuack · 09/07/2019 20:12

Good for you. Sadly, since I've miscarried four times, I've not given birth. So you win that particular enviable competition.

However, if you truly believe this is important, then why FFS are you pissing all over the OP's thread? WHY?

I'm not especially young, and you surely must realise there are all sorts of people, of all sorts of ages, who hold varying opinions on trans issues and identity. Belittling others who disagree with you for age suggests you don't have any kind of convincing argument, just insults. Why not save them for a thread that's actually about trans issues, instead of picking on one term in the OP's long post, and making everything about that?

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 09/07/2019 20:38

Sarah I am not going to post on this again because I am frankly getting really upset thinking back to some recent, raw memories.

But my take is this - I think birth trauma often happens because women feel not listened to, treated like meat. I was told things like "you will be lying on your back. We will insert a monitoring device into your vagina. We will do xyz to you."

When I objected I was told I was "emotional" or they were "just informing me what was going to happen". The staff had their protocols, and besides, I really should be thinking about my babies.

As someone who had been raped, I felt totally sidelined with people telling what would happen to me and how I was allowed to understand it (no, they weren't assaulting me, they were following best practice).

I get that some people id as trans. I wish them well and think healthcare should meet their needs. But I don't think that the whole way a female experience is discussed should bend to the wants of a small minority and I don't think language should be used that minimises the misogyny behind a lot of maternity care.

I am not the mafia or a bot. I am a real woman that this actually happened to. The issue is central to the concerns behind the OP, not a side issue.

Anyhow I am taking a break now.

nataliemum25 · 09/07/2019 21:21

Oh my word are we seriously going political correct over a WOMAN giving birth, whoever wrote this give ya head a shake, I don't know if I'm being thick here but I thought a woman gave birth 🤔🤔🤔 oh yeah, They DO!!!

SarahAndQuack · 09/07/2019 21:36

@JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff, it's awful you had a traumatic experience and what you describe sounds very, very familiar to me from what happened with my DP, and I agree it's shit.

I just think the OP is trying to help, and ok, she has used a term that some people obviously don't agree with, but MNHQ have posted to explain why, and it isn't the point of her post.

Where do we get to if we shut her out because we're too busy having a (very familiar) argument with ourselves on this thread? I don't see how it helps.

Laniakea · 09/07/2019 21:48

I’ve been pregnant 10 times, I’ve had four live births. Two of my miscarriages were in the second trimester where I was induced on labour ward and birthed dead foetuses which then had funerals. I have had some incredibly bad ‘care’ I will never recover from the trauma of what happened & what was done to me. And the people who say they can help now call me a birthing person. WTAF how does erasing me ease my trauma?

Nothing ever changes - women are just meat to the birthing industry. OP can’t even recognise her traumatising language.

PanamaPattie · 09/07/2019 21:52

For me, even the picture at the top is triggering - being tethered to the bed by tubes and needles.

Soola · 09/07/2019 23:16

@Blahblahblahnanana thank you for replying to me. Yes, that does make sense to me regarding the horror stories but I have heard on here.

However, my daughter is early twenties and some of her old school friends have had an awful time giving birth.

I did wonder if it was a case of too much going on so that a woman can’t give birth peacefully because there are now so much more options and if you make an unfortunate choice in all the confusion it would make for a horrible experience?

Are there too many people around giving conflicting advice giving rise to panic and stress?

EgremontRusset · 09/07/2019 23:35

Hi. I had therapy for birth trauma after a very bad experience (clinically and psychologically) at a very good hospital. The therapy helped but I can’t get my head round repeating the experience and don’t think my mental health can manage another pregnancy unless I can have a Caesarian without fighting tooth and nail, I don’t think I can stand the fighting because HCPs disrespecting my (safe) wishes was part of the original trauma. I’ve looked at the relevant sections of the Birthrights website and it just confirms how ambiguous the area is and how I might well have to fight as it would count as ‘maternal request’...

Do I have any options other than either not having another child or saving/borrowing til we could afford a private Caesarian? Is there any process to agree things like this on an ‘in principle’ basis?

SweetMelodies · 10/07/2019 00:18

@Soola

I don’t necessarily think women had a better time in the past or that traumatic births are a ‘new’ phenomenon at all. It’s just more acceptable to speak out about it now, plus platforms like the internet make it easier for women to share their stories. I know Birth Trauma Association says it hears from women in their 70’s who are still affected by the birth trauma they experienced half a century ago. Some of the common practices from the past sound pretty barbaric as well- women forced into stirrups, routine episiotomies for ALL women at many hospitals for example, even if completely unnecessary. I think a lot of the problems that make birth traumatic today were very much relevant back then as well.

groundanchochillipowder · 10/07/2019 01:14

Can't see anything improving until those damn wards are done away with and staffing levels improve so that women are not relying on some non-staff member to even get hold of a jug of water, food to eat or to get to a toilet, much less such shoddy medical treatment and lack of pain relief. In no other place are actual patients treated with so poorly (and also expected to fully look after another patient). The mentality that only the baby matters is outright misogyny. And not only is a non staff member expected to be present for women to carry out caring functions but also women are then expected to share a ward built for only 4 or 6 with 8 or 12 including half those usually be random men. Unbelievable!

You have postpartum women who have had CS's, major surgery, beaten to the shower by a male non-patient clad in only boxer shorts.

It's ridiculous.

As for 'birthing person', Jesus wept! You're dealing with a major issue that affects women and more concerned about bloody lingo.

LightDrizzle · 10/07/2019 02:41

The mantra “pregnancy isn’t an illness” and consequent idea that post-partum women don’t need nursing or care support has a lot to answer for. It has been used and abused. I can’t understand why a patient having major abdominal surgery in one ward is routinely brought their food to their bedside, assisted with washing or helped to the shower the first time and given powerful painkillers, while a women on a post- natal ward in the same hospital who has had major abdominal surgery, is told if she wants food, she must shuffle to a dining area to eat it, with the added complication of not being able to take her newborn baby with her. It’s fucking brutal. The same applies to women with horrible tears from vagina deliveries and injuries from instrumental births. It is barbaric.
Women are going hungry and being deprived of sleep on the back of possibly days in labour. We hear time and time again that drug rounds are sporadic and women don’t get the pain relief they need.
Wards are overcrowded with noisy visitors and partners, some of whom hog facilities intended for patients only, and stare at women trying to establish breast feeding, or hobbling to the loo with flapping gowns and bloodstains.
People aren’t asked to have electronic devices on mute or use headphones.
We are made to feel guilty about dwelling on it because after all, we’ve got a lovely baby. We should be grateful . It’s fucking “mustn’t grumble” all over.

I’m afraid I eye-rolled at the creating new narratives thing. Thank you for pursuing this, and I understand narrative theory etc. but I think it’s time for gloves off and some evidence based tough talking.
Post-natal care needs better resourcing and there needs be a culture shift towards acknowledging that most women DO need at least some nursing or care post birth. That they have painful tears, stitches and swelling, that they are exhausted, that they need to eat, drink and rest well.
Post natal wards are the Cinderella of maternity services.
It makes me so angry.

groundanchochillipowder · 10/07/2019 02:52

Wards are overcrowded with noisy visitors and partners, some of whom hog facilities intended for patients only, and stare at women trying to establish breast feeding, or hobbling to the loo with flapping gowns and bloodstains.

Many are also forced to leave their curtains open amidst all this so the staff can see them (to do what, who knows, as so many go without care, seems just another stick to beat women with).

Blahblahblahnanana · 10/07/2019 05:09

@Soola I think along with the issues I mentioned part of the issue is once the woman comes into hospital there are a number of factors that impact the normal physiology of labour/birth, this subsequently increases the likely hood of an instrumental/cesarean delivery.

Being in labour/hospital can cause anxiety and this can inhibit the hormone oxytocin which triggers contractions, so as a result contractions may stop or reduce resulting in the woman being given a synthetic version of oxytocin through a drip to increase the strength/duration of her contractions. Synthetic oxytocin is known to increase the amount of pain the woman is in as if she were left to labour naturally without the drip her own beta-endorphins (pain reducing hormones) would help her to cope with the pain, meaning there’s more chance the woman would need pain relief which means she may need to labour on the bed rather than being upright and mobile. Being in bed isn’t the best position to labour or birth on. Being upright and mobile helps the woman to get into more comfortable positions which can help the woman to cope with the pain, it also helps the baby descent into the pelvis and navigate its way through the birth canal (cervix, vagina then the vulva). Not being up right and mobile can increase the duration of labour and the subsequent need for intervention. (Epidurals increase the pushing stage of labour and increase the risk of intervention).

More often than not the woman is likely to have a CTG so that the baby’s heart rate can be monitored throughout labour, so the woman is most likely to labour on the bed which isn’t the best position. The CTG monitors are rubbish as they fall off, they often lose the baby’s heart rate if the woman moves, it’s very difficult to get a good trace on larger women, as the baby descends further into the birth canal often it’s difficult to get a good trace so a clip is needed to be placed on the baby’s head, all these things can cause the woman anxiety again inhibiting oxytocin and the subsequent need for intervention.

Being in hospital also means regular vaginal examinations to assess progress which again can cause anxiety which inhibits oxytocin and the subsequent need for intervention.

I think social media platforms/the media and the things they see/hear from friends/family and the fear of giving birth itself can cause women anxiety, so when they do go into labour they are already on high alert worried/anxious about giving birth.

(By interventions I mean: instrumental deliveries forcepts/ventouse, the need for an episiotomy or cesarean)

Pandamodium · 10/07/2019 05:26

I've had 5 births and 3 living children.

My best birthing experience was when I delivered my 19 weeker in A+E because the delivery team refused to take me. I had adequate pain relief and a lovely doctor held my hand (I sent my mam out as I didn't want her to see) and let me cry all over her.

This was Durham University hospital. They also refused to transfer me when my waters broke at 24 weeks with my second son. I was asked if I had just pissed myself i suffered a cord prolapse and was rushed into theatre 20 minutes before I was due to be discharged home on bed rest. Durham doesn't have an intensive care unit so he was transferred to James Cook. I believe the transfer and unavailable medical assistance was a factor in his death and if i had been sent to a hospital as soon as my waters broke he would have had a better chance of survival.

I suffer from PTSD alongside other MH issues due to this I have nightmares, flashbacks and in times of stress hear voices. I may not suffer from any physical issues but mentally to but it bluntly I'm fucked.

Blahblahblahnanana · 10/07/2019 05:52

Re postnatal care, I agree postnatal care can’t improve in this area unless more money is put into maternity services.

Medication is often late/delayed and basic care needs are often not met due to understaffing, and the midwife needing to provide 1-2-1 care with the growing number of women with more complex health needs. There is also lots of paper work to complete...

The idea of partners being allowed to stay on the postnatal wards is so that they can support the woman (help her with the baby/help her to the bathroom/help her get her meals ect) as there’s simply not the resources to provide 1-2-1 postnatal care. I’m not a fan of this tbh, it makes the wards crowded/busy/noisy, it makes them less private for other women, and more often than not partners don’t tend to provide much physical support for the woman, and it adds to the workload as it’s like having an extra patient to care for.....

I’ve not come across the needing curtains to be open on P/N wards, I don’t see the reason unless the woman is high risk and needs to be kept a close eye on however they ideally should have their own room.

In and ideal world P/N wards should be single bedded rooms, so that women have their own privacy and aren’t disturbed by other women’s partners/visitors however this is the NHS and this is never going to happen.

SinkGirl · 10/07/2019 09:27

Soola I am sure all those things happened, they just weren’t discussed and often went untreated. My grandmother had a fistula and a severe prolapse after her last birth - she suffered in silence for over 4 decades.

My mum had her last birth in 1989 - she ended up having mesh surgery that ruined her life, and then a hysterectomy as a result of the prolapse.

Tears are more common now because episiotomy is not done routinely. Episiotomy was previously done in the majority of births - by 1979, up to 80% of all births in the US involved an episiotomy, so more than that will have involved stitches. It started being used more commonly in the 1920s
gizmodo.com/a-brief-history-of-vaginal-cutting-during-childbirth-1710537581

Higher rates of epidural also leads to increased intervention and therefore episiotomy and tearing.

SinkGirl · 10/07/2019 09:31

In and ideal world P/N wards should be single bedded rooms, so that women have their own privacy and aren’t disturbed by other women’s partners/visitors however this is the NHS and this is never going to happen

It can happen - a new Hospital is being built here and the PN Ward is 90% private rooms with just 2x 4 bed bays where needed.