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Guest post: "I fear the eradication of Down's syndrome"

999 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 16/11/2015 17:29

On the day Natty was born, I wasn't sure I was up to being her mother. Ignorance took over. Everything I thought I knew about Down's syndrome was a smattering of outdated stereotypes, all of which have subsequently been proved wrong.

In eight years, we have come so far as a family, risen to challenges, endured heart surgery, made adjustments and learnt to slow our pace and live in the moment. I wouldn't change any of it. I am a better person now. The pregnant woman I was, whose heart was filled with fear at the words Down's syndrome, now shakes her head in disbelief.

I've been bleary-eyed over research for this post. And, in fact, as I rose at 5.30am, drafts of what I would write very much in my mind, there was one member of our busy household who noticed my pensiveness. Natty drew me down to her face level, looked intuitively at me and said 'It's OK Mummy.'

I held her so tight, and made a silent promise into her warm hair, a promise that I would do my best to convey her worth to the world.

Because while we praise advances in healthcare and women's control over their reproductive lives, there is an important ethical debate I fear is being overlooked.

A new non-invasive prenatal test (NIPT) could help identify women whose babies have Down's syndrome. The test involves taking a sample of blood from the mother and it uses this to detect the baby's DNA.

At the moment, the NIPT test is available privately, but it could soon be rolled out by the NHS as part of their population screening programme. The UK National Screening Committee has just ended consultation over offering it - it can only be added to the programme if there is a beneficial reason for doing so.

However, there is no health gain in diagnosing Down's syndrome during pregnancy. It cannot be treated or prevented. It simply allows parents to decide whether to continue a pregnancy to term or not.

There are ethical implications to genetic testing, but no easy answers. The UNESCO International Bioethics Committee says that genetic testing can offer women the right of choice. However, it could also become routine that ill or disabled children are not to given the choice of birth at all.

So giving women choice whilst not devaluing individuals with Down's syndrome is a fine line to tread.

We must ensure that parents are given unbiased, updated information in order to make informed choices. There can be no assumption that those with Down's syndrome are not compatible with life - or worse, that they are too costly to have a right to life.

We are promised that the new NIPT can allow parents to be prepared for their baby's arrival and that it will not increase termination rates. However, in countries where Down's syndrome screening has been standard for years, termination rates stand at almost 100%. Are these tests being sold as a kind form of early euthanasia to trusting expectant parents - and will a whole genetic group of people be targeted in the process?

The support networks we have in place simply aren't as sophisticated as the genetic tests being considered. We must explain test implications and outcomes, support those who choose a termination and give equal care to those who choose to continue their pregnancies. We need charities that aren't partnered with the test manufacturers.

If parents are rushed into terminations, or asked repeatedly if they would like to end their pregnancies, then we are certainly sending out the message that some lives are worth a great deal less than others.

We need the screening committee to welcome input from parental groups and self-advocates. We need to match up the wonderful examples of best practice by bringing committed midwives and learning disability nurses together, and we need to accept the value of difference.

Society has come a long way from the days when children with Down's syndrome were institutionalised with little or no love, educational support or quality healthcare. We hope Natty will find employment she enjoys, have a partner of her choosing, a social life fuller than ours and live a long, healthy life independently with support.

I cannot bear to think that one day I will have to explain to Natty why others think her adored life is not worth living, or even justify her very existence. But here I am, already doing just that.

And, most of all, I fear that one day I will be grieving, as others celebrate the eradication of all children like my beautiful daughter. No Natty, maybe it's not OK.

The BBC is making a documentary about Down's syndrome, which Hayley Gowleniowska is contributing to. If you are affected by the tests and interested in an initial off-the-record research chat, please contact Clare at [email protected].

OP posts:
caroldecker · 17/11/2015 17:09

badly I support everything you have said.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 17/11/2015 17:15

I disagree with you Badly. I think it's entirely possible to be pro-choice and still regret that 94% of times DS is found, the child is aborted. It's not about the personal choice of the families involved - I would never judge someone for the choice they made. It is about the fact that in the UK, where testing is widely available strongly pushed, people with DS are simply not being born any more.

There was a similar thread about screening for autism a wee while back, which admittedly may be pushing my buttons as DS has autism and, while his life is far from easy, it is his life and he is living it with every ounce of colour he can.

DixieNormas · 17/11/2015 17:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cestlavielife · 17/11/2015 17:29

And for some that begins earlier...when I had dodgy scans I just thought well this is my child what will be will be. (He does not have ds but another condition not testable ) I can understand people saying "while I have the choice legally I want to choose " that's fine. But it's naive to think that any child even "healthy " will never throw up challenges. We should be encouraging or teaching future parents to be resilient to dealing with challenges. I do defend informed choice

nuttybananas · 17/11/2015 17:36

I welcome the ability to test/screen earlier because I want to know if my child will have a disability. For our family - given personal circumstances it would be better to not have a child with DS or other disability. This does not mean that I think that DS/disabled children shouldn't exist, that they don't add a huge amount of value to their families and the world. It means that it would not be good in our personal family circumstances. Yes we may go on to have a child that has a disability that can't be screened for and if that happens we will have to deal with it - but it will mean difficulty for our immediate family and no doubt we will require significant state support. I would prefer not to be in this situation, so if I can avoid it I will. This is not the same for all families.
Its all very relevant because our 12 week scan is coming up and I am very scared. Because I do not want a child with DS is so far away from saying that children alive with DS shouldn't be, which is how I read the OP. I think the use of the word genocide is inflammatory but I can also understand why the OP is passionate and wants to provoke debate, but it hasn't helped me to think that we should reduce, eliminate or research more screening during pregnancy.

expatinscotland · 17/11/2015 17:55

'However I do think there is a trace of eugenics to all of the arguments put forward. It is strongly suspected that some of the greatest geniuses who ever lived had ASD for example.'

Do you have a child with ASD, another? It's no fucking picnic. Not all are geniuses. And on my son, he's lost out on a lot because of it. He has feelings that are so intense they are painful to him. I would not wish that on anyone, tbh. It's had a serious impact on our family, especially after DD1 died and especially on DD2.

Some people who undergo testing have disabilities themselves or have other children with disabilities.

And yes, ASD cannot be screened for, but just because there are conditions which cannot be tested for doesn't mean there should be no testing available for people.

anothernumberone · 17/11/2015 17:59

Yes expat

violetsarentblue · 17/11/2015 18:04

I think the test could be a good idea for some couples.

At the moment there are support systems in placefor people with DS and their families, in the form of the NHS.
But who's to say that support will still be there in years to come?
There might not even be an NHS in the future.
Families have to take this sort of thing into account when choosing whether to go ahead and have a child. Healthy or otherwise.

Snossidge · 17/11/2015 18:23

I didn't have any tests with mine as I didn't need to know; it wouldn't have made a difference to me as I wouldn't have terminated.

However, I am pro-choice without any buts. The more information available to women who want to exercise that choice the better.

ragged · 17/11/2015 18:32

It upsets me when it gets implied that women who would choose to terminate for (disability-related condition) must be ignorant, ill-informed, pressurised, uneducated and/or purely selfish. It's a hard enough decision to take anyway, why do these labels have to enter the discussion.

People can validly take the decision to terminate without being ill-informed, selfish, etc.

HermioneK · 17/11/2015 18:42

I'm pro choice, you take care of a down syndrome child if you want. I'm a selfish lazy mother who loves her children dearly, but I'm looking forward to having my independence back.

IceBeing · 17/11/2015 18:42

I find this issue really confusing.

Because we have control of our reproduction most women are only having one or two children over 30 years of fertility. Terminating a pregnancy doesn't reduce the number of children born, it just means a different child is born. Why does the first random combination of cells a woman's body puts together have priority over all the other combinations it could make?

If someone terminates a first pregnancy for DS then has a child later that
year, having had the first child instead would have prevent the second from being born.

So either way around, choosing to keep a specific pregnancy means you are preventing others.

If you are only having one baby in your life I can't see why you wouldn't choose for that one baby to not be born with a disability. Whichever baby you choose to allow to be born is denying all the others you might have had the right to life.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 17/11/2015 18:51

"you take care of a down syndrome child if you want"

so sensitively worded Hmm

zzzzz · 17/11/2015 18:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

anothernumberone · 17/11/2015 18:55

I am presuming you terminated a DS pregnancy hermoine.

It is a sensitive topic and it is clear almost all angles of it are offensive to someone. I will admit iora s post struck a nerve with me and then clearly mine with expat even though we were all coming at the same condition of ASD from a different perspective.

lastuseraccount123 · 17/11/2015 19:01

I would test and I would abort. My body, my life, my choice. Plus I agree with Icebeing.

laulea82 · 17/11/2015 19:06

I had the NIPT test done. Got very high risk quad test so needed to know either way. I spent two weeks in hell not knowing. Turned out negative for downs. I couldn't take the risk of an invasive procedure and was lucky enough to be able to afford the Nipt price tag. I know that nothing is certain and we won't know for sure til birth in 7 weeks time. We would have 100% kept the baby either way. If it was downs we would have needed the time to get ourselves educated and get the support for Breast feeding Etc. I can't imagine the emotions involved in of finding out on d day!
All in all I wish I had had no screening at all as the worry was not worth it. If you'd keep the baby anyway then you should be encouraged to not bother.
However once you have a very high risk the NIPT saved months of worry or worse - an unnecessary dangerous procedure.
NIPT certainly has its place.

ispyfispi · 17/11/2015 19:19

I'm rather surprised at the negativity towards tfmr when supposedly something like 1 in 3 women terminate a perfectly healthy pregnancy at some point in their life Hmm

KittyandTeal · 17/11/2015 19:27

Ispy I thought I was maybe being a bit oversensitive. Maybe this isn't a good thread for me, I'm starting to feel like an uneducated, selfish villain.

I always swore I'd fight the corner of tfmr as a choice (while also supporting those who choose to ctt as well) but I don't think I can here :(

AgentProvocateur · 17/11/2015 19:29

Most of the posts on this thread are about children with DS. These children grow into adults who will in all likelihood not get a job (yes, I know SOME do) and whose elderly parents will have to fight and fight to stop their support being cut. In a lot of cases the "support" will consist of a poorly-paid, disinterested carer trailing the person with DS to a cafe. Adults with DS will also probably get dementia at a much younger age, and then finding suitable support becomes harder still. My parents are in their eighties and I wouldn't wish their life on anyone. My other siblings and I have also been had to make difficult life decisions. My personal experience is wholly negative and I fully support a woman's right to choose.

whattheseithakasmean · 17/11/2015 19:32

My body. My life. My right to decide.

How many times do we have to keep saying it? I have been shouting that slogan since the Alton Bill in the 1980s and now we appear to have an enemy within.

Every child a wanted child. Every mother a willing mother. No one else gets to decide for me, using emotive 'eradication' terminology.

DixieNormas · 17/11/2015 19:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crumblybiscuits · 17/11/2015 19:42

Kitty I also think this is essentially a pro-life thread condemning tfmr. I'll defend tfmr to the best of my ability but I'm finding this thread very hard to read.

Alyselisabeth · 17/11/2015 19:45

Kitty. I hope you read my earlier post to you. You fight!! You are not selfish, far from it. You are brave.

I've only just joined this so not sure how it works but if u can, message me if u want too.
Also I have a blog which I've written about my experiences with my tfmr if you fancy reading, it may help in some way.

If you google Alys Hitchen, it's called life goes on.
Sending hugs xx

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 17/11/2015 19:45

I'm genuinely not reading it as that and unreservedly apologise if my comment read like that.