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Guest post: "I fear the eradication of Down's syndrome"

999 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 16/11/2015 17:29

On the day Natty was born, I wasn't sure I was up to being her mother. Ignorance took over. Everything I thought I knew about Down's syndrome was a smattering of outdated stereotypes, all of which have subsequently been proved wrong.

In eight years, we have come so far as a family, risen to challenges, endured heart surgery, made adjustments and learnt to slow our pace and live in the moment. I wouldn't change any of it. I am a better person now. The pregnant woman I was, whose heart was filled with fear at the words Down's syndrome, now shakes her head in disbelief.

I've been bleary-eyed over research for this post. And, in fact, as I rose at 5.30am, drafts of what I would write very much in my mind, there was one member of our busy household who noticed my pensiveness. Natty drew me down to her face level, looked intuitively at me and said 'It's OK Mummy.'

I held her so tight, and made a silent promise into her warm hair, a promise that I would do my best to convey her worth to the world.

Because while we praise advances in healthcare and women's control over their reproductive lives, there is an important ethical debate I fear is being overlooked.

A new non-invasive prenatal test (NIPT) could help identify women whose babies have Down's syndrome. The test involves taking a sample of blood from the mother and it uses this to detect the baby's DNA.

At the moment, the NIPT test is available privately, but it could soon be rolled out by the NHS as part of their population screening programme. The UK National Screening Committee has just ended consultation over offering it - it can only be added to the programme if there is a beneficial reason for doing so.

However, there is no health gain in diagnosing Down's syndrome during pregnancy. It cannot be treated or prevented. It simply allows parents to decide whether to continue a pregnancy to term or not.

There are ethical implications to genetic testing, but no easy answers. The UNESCO International Bioethics Committee says that genetic testing can offer women the right of choice. However, it could also become routine that ill or disabled children are not to given the choice of birth at all.

So giving women choice whilst not devaluing individuals with Down's syndrome is a fine line to tread.

We must ensure that parents are given unbiased, updated information in order to make informed choices. There can be no assumption that those with Down's syndrome are not compatible with life - or worse, that they are too costly to have a right to life.

We are promised that the new NIPT can allow parents to be prepared for their baby's arrival and that it will not increase termination rates. However, in countries where Down's syndrome screening has been standard for years, termination rates stand at almost 100%. Are these tests being sold as a kind form of early euthanasia to trusting expectant parents - and will a whole genetic group of people be targeted in the process?

The support networks we have in place simply aren't as sophisticated as the genetic tests being considered. We must explain test implications and outcomes, support those who choose a termination and give equal care to those who choose to continue their pregnancies. We need charities that aren't partnered with the test manufacturers.

If parents are rushed into terminations, or asked repeatedly if they would like to end their pregnancies, then we are certainly sending out the message that some lives are worth a great deal less than others.

We need the screening committee to welcome input from parental groups and self-advocates. We need to match up the wonderful examples of best practice by bringing committed midwives and learning disability nurses together, and we need to accept the value of difference.

Society has come a long way from the days when children with Down's syndrome were institutionalised with little or no love, educational support or quality healthcare. We hope Natty will find employment she enjoys, have a partner of her choosing, a social life fuller than ours and live a long, healthy life independently with support.

I cannot bear to think that one day I will have to explain to Natty why others think her adored life is not worth living, or even justify her very existence. But here I am, already doing just that.

And, most of all, I fear that one day I will be grieving, as others celebrate the eradication of all children like my beautiful daughter. No Natty, maybe it's not OK.

The BBC is making a documentary about Down's syndrome, which Hayley Gowleniowska is contributing to. If you are affected by the tests and interested in an initial off-the-record research chat, please contact Clare at [email protected].

OP posts:
BishopBrennansArse · 25/11/2015 22:01

Another parent of an affectionate severely autistic child who also thinks a lot of opinions on this thread are born from complete misconceptions.

No, I wouldn't take away any of my kids' autism. It is what makes them who they are and not what makes them unhappy. It's the way others don't make adjustments to make their lives easier, their prejudices when very obvious autistic behaviour occurs.

It's how other people disable them that is the problem.

I'd take all their physical problems away in an instant, though.

BishopBrennansArse · 25/11/2015 22:03

And actually I feel in a lot of ways once you understand it some ways of thinking common to people who have autism makes a darned sight more sense than many NT people.

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 22:35

As someone who suffers mental illness I find the last few posts uncomfortable. There seems to be a total disconnect between physical problems (which presumably can be just as character forming as mental) and mental problems.

I don't see mental illness as 'part of my personality' or something I wouldn't wish away. I absolutely would wish my illness away.

Maybe part of the difference is that I wasn't (entirely) born with the mental illness I now have? But I would happily lose both the acquired and the original!

I aware of the discussion about children born deaf whose parents don't want them to hear because they feel they will loose the sense of community they have - or part of their identity. But then I have also seen videos of hearing be given to people who have never heard before and I think they are quite happy about the outcome.

So is deafness a malfunction to be fixed or an intrinsic part of someone?

Why should bipolar or depression be considered less of a malfunction to be fixed and more an intrinsic part of someone?

Why should autism (if a cure was ever to come along) not be considered something to cure?

zzzzz · 25/11/2015 22:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 22:51

What part is the autism then? If you exclude the mental health issues and the physical health issues as 'not autism' what is left?

I wouldn't cure musical talent, but I might be tempted to cure a total lack of musical capacity...

I wouldn't cure eloquence....but I would cure an inability to speak at all...

Devilishpyjamas · 25/11/2015 23:03

Autism doesn't necessarily come with mental health issues - my son had no mental health isdues until fifteen & a half.

For my son his autism means he is non-verbal, but that is almost certainly due to a movement disorder (often severe autism invloves limited ability to control your movement & make your body do what it wants - hardly any research on that). It also gives him sensory processing disorders - it seem likely that he does not understand where his body is in space. He may hear things differently & see things differently.

His autism prevents him living an independent life. He needs 24 hour supervision due to an inability to not run into the road etc.

He also has learning disabilites & language problems.

His mental health issues - severe anxiety & rapid cycling mood/ aggressive explosions from anxiety - have taken away his life. He can't go to many favourite places because he is simply too unstable.

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 23:04

I actually also do not see the difference between lifelong illness and disability. (I obviously see the difference between temporary illness and disability.)

My DH has had OCD essentially all his life (from the age of 4-5) and it is certainly disabling, yet it is classed as an illness. Is it a part of his personality? Maybe. Would he send it to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more? Absolutely.

Perhaps being lifelong bipolar is a better comparison. It has some clear disadvantages over being NT, it has some clear (but fringe in my opinion) advantages over being NT, it is also disabling.

Maybe most people who suffer bipolar also wouldn't ask to be cured...

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 23:06

dev so would you not cure your sons lack of control over his body if you could? Would you not give him speech if you could?

Do you find those differences core to his person? Or do you think he could be the same person and be able to control his body and speak?

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 23:11

Just tracked back through your posts dev and wanted to say how sorry I am for the anxiety surge your son has had. You are absolutely right that crippling anxiety is hell no matter what is causing it.

I suspect that much of the treatment suggestions handed out to people crippled by anxiety must be very hard to adapt for someone with autism.

Devilishpyjamas · 25/11/2015 23:17

My point earlier was given a choice between taking away his severe autism or his anxiety I would take away the anxiety & leave him severely autistic.

Yes I'd rather he had control & he is desperate to speak so I'm not going to say he shouldn't but actually even with severe autism he had a very nice life. He has no life now - but that's thanks to anxiety & mood instability, nothing much to do with his autism.

He's been severely autistic since a year old so I don't think it can be removed from him. Even if you cured his speech & body movement now his childhood & adolescence - his growing up experience has been an autistic one - you don't remove that by making it possible for someone to talk.

Whereas his anxiety & mood instability could bog off tomorrow - and I'd have my real boy back.

Devilishpyjamas · 25/11/2015 23:21

There's no treatment other than heavy duty drugs (which come with their own problems). He's on antipsychotics & benzodiazepines, having been drug free until he was just short of 16. Even on those he can be pretty unstable.

Devilishpyjamas · 25/11/2015 23:23

Whereas he was on no drugs at all (except occasional melatonin) for his severe autism. There wasn't anything that needed treating. We just went surfing. Can't do that now.

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 23:28

I said in one of my first posts on this thread that we (the human race in general) value a lot of the wrong things when we look at peoples lives. Happiness and the ability to give and receive it is actually fantastically more important than we think it is, and the ability to do work (useful or otherwise - I am looking a you facebook pyramid sellers) is over rated, and will become more so as our tech levels means we need less and less human intervention to get ourselves fed and watered.

I think I likely agree with people that I wouldn't take happiness away from anyone in exchange for anything. But I think I would instinctively want to cure deafness, or being non-verbal even given it is possible to be reasonably happy with it.

Anxiety can definitely do one though. So can depression and OCD.

I really hope that your son's anxiety will improve again. Flowers

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 23:31

Oh dev I remember your surfing threads I think! Was it also your son that got a modified laptop that let him talk a little about surfing? (might have that recollection muddled up).

Oh I am so sorry to hear he can't surf anymore.

Is there any hope this is a 'phase'?

Devilishpyjamas · 25/11/2015 23:34

Thank you.

I suppose had you said to me, before he was born, 'this child will be anxious'. I would have said 'so?'. Had you said 'he will be severely autistic' I would have been traumatised. In actual fact it's the very high anxiety that has been so much more of an issue - I would never have guessed.

My youngest (NT) is also anxious & I worry about what will happen to him at puberty - having seen ds1.

I've never really suffered anxiety but it has given me a real insight into how debilitating it can be.

Devilishpyjamas · 25/11/2015 23:35

Yep that's him. :)

I hope he comes out the other side as well. From talking to others it seems 50:50.

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 23:38

Yes I think I would have had the same thoughts, and now, even without first hand knowledge of autism, I think I would change my mind as you have.

I know it is often horrible for people on here to have to 'educate' but it does actually work...slowly and little by little. I don't think I have anything like the fear I had before of difference, disability etc.

I am sure I am still full of stupid opinions and bullshit but I hope I am drifting in the right direction.

Devilishpyjamas · 25/11/2015 23:39

Lol. I've certainly been taught a lot by ds1! Well I think he's finally gone to sleep - so am going to find my bed....

DixieNormas · 25/11/2015 23:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 23:46

I was so touched by his story and the positivity you were experiencing at the time and I am genuinely upset to hear he has suffered such a reverse.

I know its just emotion borrowed through a screen and not even the tiniest reflection of what you must be going through, so I hope you won't be offended.

50:50 seems far too low and the whole thing is just so damn unfair.

I really really hope I will one day be passing through MN and see a post from you saying you are all back at the beach.....

IceBeing · 25/11/2015 23:52

dixie I guess because of the regression at 3/4 yo that is sometimes part of autism, it also 'feels' like something that is triggered and develops.

you say "If you take away the autism you are taking away personality, the way some one thinks, feels. How they have always been, how they have always seen the world."

but I could say "If you take away OCD you are taking away personality, the way some one thinks, feels. How they have always been, how they have always seen the world." particularly in someone like my DH who developed it as a 4/5 year old. He has never really known a time when he wasn't doing rituals etc.

I honestly don't see how a line can be drawn in between these cases except that OCD seems to have absolutely no upside at all...

Maybe that is enough of a reason to draw that line.

DixieNormas · 26/11/2015 00:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DeoGratias · 26/11/2015 07:00

I can certainly understand a parent who has a loved down's or autistic child of course not wanting that child taken away and I can understand parents choosing not to abort children.

What I find harder to understand is the distinction some are making between certain issues. Eg I would like my children to have all 4 limbs, not be autistic, not have down's, not have propensity to depression (which by the way is partly genetic), not have OCD etc. I don't want them to have any of those things.

I can understand someone wanting some of the characteristics of certain conditions which are useful. I am quite thorough. I definitely don't have OCD (and I know what that is like - most of my family are psychiatrists and we have a very good knowledge within the family of most of these things) but I have more of an attention to detail and desire to have things in their place than others and that enhances my life. So that characteristic is for me a plus point although I could never live with an unreliable late person or one who was too messy. However if I had something which impeded my life then I wouldn't want it nor would I want it for my children. Nor would I even want the children to be high functioning aspergers because on balance even with the advantages of brilliance in some areas it makes life harder. Down's is a bit different as the children tend to be happy and loved although even there early death , heart problems etc etc sometimes flow but not necessarily so down's is a good opener for the thread.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 26/11/2015 07:03

"Downs is different as children tend to be happy and loved".

hildren with autism are happy and loved too!

My daughter was sitting hugging me and saying "love you" last night.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 26/11/2015 07:05

I know many children with autism by the way.

I cannot get past your sticking to stereotypes and myths at all.