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Guest post: "I fear the eradication of Down's syndrome"

999 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 16/11/2015 17:29

On the day Natty was born, I wasn't sure I was up to being her mother. Ignorance took over. Everything I thought I knew about Down's syndrome was a smattering of outdated stereotypes, all of which have subsequently been proved wrong.

In eight years, we have come so far as a family, risen to challenges, endured heart surgery, made adjustments and learnt to slow our pace and live in the moment. I wouldn't change any of it. I am a better person now. The pregnant woman I was, whose heart was filled with fear at the words Down's syndrome, now shakes her head in disbelief.

I've been bleary-eyed over research for this post. And, in fact, as I rose at 5.30am, drafts of what I would write very much in my mind, there was one member of our busy household who noticed my pensiveness. Natty drew me down to her face level, looked intuitively at me and said 'It's OK Mummy.'

I held her so tight, and made a silent promise into her warm hair, a promise that I would do my best to convey her worth to the world.

Because while we praise advances in healthcare and women's control over their reproductive lives, there is an important ethical debate I fear is being overlooked.

A new non-invasive prenatal test (NIPT) could help identify women whose babies have Down's syndrome. The test involves taking a sample of blood from the mother and it uses this to detect the baby's DNA.

At the moment, the NIPT test is available privately, but it could soon be rolled out by the NHS as part of their population screening programme. The UK National Screening Committee has just ended consultation over offering it - it can only be added to the programme if there is a beneficial reason for doing so.

However, there is no health gain in diagnosing Down's syndrome during pregnancy. It cannot be treated or prevented. It simply allows parents to decide whether to continue a pregnancy to term or not.

There are ethical implications to genetic testing, but no easy answers. The UNESCO International Bioethics Committee says that genetic testing can offer women the right of choice. However, it could also become routine that ill or disabled children are not to given the choice of birth at all.

So giving women choice whilst not devaluing individuals with Down's syndrome is a fine line to tread.

We must ensure that parents are given unbiased, updated information in order to make informed choices. There can be no assumption that those with Down's syndrome are not compatible with life - or worse, that they are too costly to have a right to life.

We are promised that the new NIPT can allow parents to be prepared for their baby's arrival and that it will not increase termination rates. However, in countries where Down's syndrome screening has been standard for years, termination rates stand at almost 100%. Are these tests being sold as a kind form of early euthanasia to trusting expectant parents - and will a whole genetic group of people be targeted in the process?

The support networks we have in place simply aren't as sophisticated as the genetic tests being considered. We must explain test implications and outcomes, support those who choose a termination and give equal care to those who choose to continue their pregnancies. We need charities that aren't partnered with the test manufacturers.

If parents are rushed into terminations, or asked repeatedly if they would like to end their pregnancies, then we are certainly sending out the message that some lives are worth a great deal less than others.

We need the screening committee to welcome input from parental groups and self-advocates. We need to match up the wonderful examples of best practice by bringing committed midwives and learning disability nurses together, and we need to accept the value of difference.

Society has come a long way from the days when children with Down's syndrome were institutionalised with little or no love, educational support or quality healthcare. We hope Natty will find employment she enjoys, have a partner of her choosing, a social life fuller than ours and live a long, healthy life independently with support.

I cannot bear to think that one day I will have to explain to Natty why others think her adored life is not worth living, or even justify her very existence. But here I am, already doing just that.

And, most of all, I fear that one day I will be grieving, as others celebrate the eradication of all children like my beautiful daughter. No Natty, maybe it's not OK.

The BBC is making a documentary about Down's syndrome, which Hayley Gowleniowska is contributing to. If you are affected by the tests and interested in an initial off-the-record research chat, please contact Clare at [email protected].

OP posts:
DixieNormas · 18/11/2015 23:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LyndaNotLinda · 18/11/2015 23:18

Apologies for multiple posts - my DS is not intellectually impaired. I think that probably makes quite a big difference to how a disabled person views their disability.

Devilishpyjamas · 18/11/2015 23:27

I am setting up his adult care now so that when I am dead it will hopefully be fairly robust. He'll be in adult care from 18 (hopefully from
6 months before but my council couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery without putting multiple spanners in the works so that might be wishful thinking). Ds2 & ds3 will do the social care battle bit (see my previous post where at the ages of 10 & 13 they can already spot a fucking stupid idea from SS & describe why it won't work in words of one syllable). They can do that from Australia if they happen to live there.

My son is very aware he is disabled. It upsets him greatly (partly why we've had such a bad year). We're working on that (because actually he's had a good life before & can again).

Devilishpyjamas · 18/11/2015 23:33

Tbh I suspect organising elderly care for me or DH (should we make elderly years) will be more stressful for ds2 & ds3 than overseeing their brother's package.

DixieNormas · 18/11/2015 23:37

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

caroldecker · 18/11/2015 23:38

The truth is any woman with normal fertility who has an abortion can go on to have another child relatively quickly - so unless a disabled child offers benefits that a non-disabled child does, there is no reason to have one if you can avoid it. It is better for the mother, the family and the child. As stated previously I speak as a person with a disability that I would have aborted if testing had been available.

Devilishpyjamas · 18/11/2015 23:41

I'll be okay - ds2 & ds3 will know all my secret tricks of how to deal with SS. (Put in stage 1 complaints & annoy the MP's & councillors). My social worker is lovely by the way & very switched on re our issues she just doesn't get to make the decisions. Ds2 & ds3 will know that & so find me a wonderful placement for my old age ;)

LyndaNotLinda · 18/11/2015 23:43

My DS is not disabled enough to be in full time care. As I said, he's not intellectually impaired. But he has exceptionally poor judgement and a host of other issues. When he inherits my estate, he's likely to spend the lot on video games.

Who's going to support him? There are a lot of people with disabilities who aren't cared for when their families are no longer around to care for them. My DS is going to be one of them. He may well end up rough sleeping.

Devilishpyjamas · 18/11/2015 23:43

It is better for the mother, the family and the child

That's the sort of comment I take issue with. Feel free to talk about your own disability in that way but don't you dare talk about my family like that. My son would not be better off dead & his brother's lives are better for having him in theirs.

DixieNormas · 18/11/2015 23:45

This reply has been deleted

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DixieNormas · 18/11/2015 23:46

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Devilishpyjamas · 18/11/2015 23:50

Lynda - that's edging more towards mental health or very high functioning developmental disabilities & isn't really relevant for disabilities such as DS - where the level of need is such that there is a duty of care.

Ironically during pregnancy most people would probably be more worried about having a child with DS than a child like your son. I would actually agree their worries may be misplaced.

If ds2 or ds3 ended up unable to care for themselves (through mental health issues or drink or drugs or whatever) I would probably lose more sleep over them than ds1.

zzzzz · 18/11/2015 23:56

This reply has been deleted

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LyndaNotLinda · 19/11/2015 00:06

Devilish - my DS gets higher rate DLA and a low mobility component. So not a 'mental health' issue.

Are we only talking about disabilities where it's family care or residential then? I wasn't aware that was the criteria for contribution.

AndNowItsSeven · 19/11/2015 01:15

Carol your post is appalling, you are not shopping for a new car, making sure you end up with the best model.

ReallyTired · 19/11/2015 02:34

I find it sad that Carol thinks she is better off dead. she must have a pretty grim disability.

I think there is a difference between a truely life limiting disability like muscular dystrophy which results in a horrible death and something that is an inconvience like deafness. Looking after someone with Downs is hard work, but most people with Downs have a reasonable quality of life. I realise that heart problems can mean many operations.

With eugenics where does it stop? Do we select for intelligence? Athletism? Good looks? Good mental health? Cancer risk? Maybe none of us would have been born.

CheerfulYank · 19/11/2015 02:44

In my case, an abortion would destroy me. So no, it would not be "better for the mother."

BadlyBehavedShoppingTrolley · 19/11/2015 04:00

Orange I am really confused by your stance. You say you are pro choice 'but terminating for this reason troubles me.'

Well I am also pro choice and have said the same thing - about gender selection. I can easily justify this, there is a world of difference between aborting a 'normal' baby that you actively TTC and are perfectly capable of supporting, purely because of a personal preference or sense of entitlement to a boy or a girl. The decision is not a heartbreaking one for the parents I imagine, but one made in a matter of fact and calculated way. If they are 'heartbroken' it's probably only at the realization that they didn't get their much wanted boy or girl, not at the loss of an otherwise 'perfect' and perfectly viable baby.

Whereas TFMR is pretty much something even some pro-lifers can have some empathy with and sympathy for, depending on the severity of the disability or issue.

Are you saying that you have no problem with people choosing to abort babies providing they are not known to be disabled or health compromised? Confused

Honestly, I am baffled.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/11/2015 05:51

What is this blanket "it is better for the child'. My child is exceptionally happy. Happier than nT kids I know. All children are different. To say all people with disabilities have lives of pain and suffering because some have is wrong.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/11/2015 05:53

And am Shock at the blatant eugenics advocated by Carol.

A little depressed by this thread. Not least because lots of people have said the same things i did without getting a roasting. Par for course here though I know.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/11/2015 06:13

Was too tired to object last night but really because I said "it's a shame for them if people were to miss out on having a nice kid like my DD", to pick out the word "shame' and try to accuse me of judging was ridiculous and petty.

Badlybehaved- why do you seem unable to understand that although orange respects the right of the individual to choose and is pro choice, she can't help feeling a little like the fact someone would actively not choose a child with a disability means people with disabilities are not valued? This sitting uneasily with her doesn't mean she isn't pro choice or would eradicate testing.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/11/2015 06:17

Since you use the words "normal" and "perfect' in contrast I can see where she is coming from.

Devilishpyjamas · 19/11/2015 06:24

Lynda - did you miss my 'very high functioning developmental disabilities' (you can get DLA for MH issues as well - indeed you can be disabled my mental health).

The thread is sbout DS - my point was that disabilities of the type you are talking about (I assume something like HFA) cannot be picked up in utero, are generally thought of by 'society' as being 'better' to deal with than DS and my suspicion is many who would terminate for DS would not for HFA or similar. I was saying maybe their fear was misplaced. I was thinking that having to function independently you don't fit into can be hard but isn't really the case for DS.

Remember this all started with your rather harsh 'what about when you're dead who will be caring for your son?' (as he requires 2:1 care at all times & is nearly adult clearly that's very much on our mind & it's looking as if we will need complaints,MP & councillors to get him an appropriate service, but we'll get there.

As the thread is about DS we're really talking about family care vs supported living, not people struggling alone. I don't think you can protect against that for any individual tbh. The vast majority of people with DS do not need the 2:1 living alone stuff my son needs (some will), but I don't think more than a handful will be living fully independently. For DS you do at least have the option of battling for a decent suppprted living arrangement (they do still exist, although it's getting very difficult indeed with the local authority cuts - although I guess with DS there is the chance of CHC funding which can help - am trying to get it for my son).

Devilishpyjamas · 19/11/2015 06:33

Badlybehaved- why do you seem unable to understand that although orange respects the right of the individual to choose and is pro choice, she can't help feeling a little like the fact someone would actively not choose a child with a disability means people with disabilities are not valued? This sitting uneasily with her doesn't mean she isn't pro choice or would eradicate testing

Yes this. I have no interest in personal decisions - terminate for whatever reason you want, I don't care, not my business. I am always slightly stunned by the number of people who tell me they would terminate for learning disabilities though. They're not even pregnant. They don't go out of their way to tell me they'd terminate because it was the wrong time to have a baby or they didn't want another child or even for something incompatible with life such as anencephaly etc. It's always telling me they'd terminate for DS. Lots of people who tell me aren't even going to have another child - it's a completely hypothetical situatuon & I don't want to know. Because it is a conversation that is about the value of a learning disabled life to them rather than any actual real decision.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/11/2015 06:39

Devilish what do you say to them?

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