Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Guest posts

Guest post: "I fear the eradication of Down's syndrome"

999 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 16/11/2015 17:29

On the day Natty was born, I wasn't sure I was up to being her mother. Ignorance took over. Everything I thought I knew about Down's syndrome was a smattering of outdated stereotypes, all of which have subsequently been proved wrong.

In eight years, we have come so far as a family, risen to challenges, endured heart surgery, made adjustments and learnt to slow our pace and live in the moment. I wouldn't change any of it. I am a better person now. The pregnant woman I was, whose heart was filled with fear at the words Down's syndrome, now shakes her head in disbelief.

I've been bleary-eyed over research for this post. And, in fact, as I rose at 5.30am, drafts of what I would write very much in my mind, there was one member of our busy household who noticed my pensiveness. Natty drew me down to her face level, looked intuitively at me and said 'It's OK Mummy.'

I held her so tight, and made a silent promise into her warm hair, a promise that I would do my best to convey her worth to the world.

Because while we praise advances in healthcare and women's control over their reproductive lives, there is an important ethical debate I fear is being overlooked.

A new non-invasive prenatal test (NIPT) could help identify women whose babies have Down's syndrome. The test involves taking a sample of blood from the mother and it uses this to detect the baby's DNA.

At the moment, the NIPT test is available privately, but it could soon be rolled out by the NHS as part of their population screening programme. The UK National Screening Committee has just ended consultation over offering it - it can only be added to the programme if there is a beneficial reason for doing so.

However, there is no health gain in diagnosing Down's syndrome during pregnancy. It cannot be treated or prevented. It simply allows parents to decide whether to continue a pregnancy to term or not.

There are ethical implications to genetic testing, but no easy answers. The UNESCO International Bioethics Committee says that genetic testing can offer women the right of choice. However, it could also become routine that ill or disabled children are not to given the choice of birth at all.

So giving women choice whilst not devaluing individuals with Down's syndrome is a fine line to tread.

We must ensure that parents are given unbiased, updated information in order to make informed choices. There can be no assumption that those with Down's syndrome are not compatible with life - or worse, that they are too costly to have a right to life.

We are promised that the new NIPT can allow parents to be prepared for their baby's arrival and that it will not increase termination rates. However, in countries where Down's syndrome screening has been standard for years, termination rates stand at almost 100%. Are these tests being sold as a kind form of early euthanasia to trusting expectant parents - and will a whole genetic group of people be targeted in the process?

The support networks we have in place simply aren't as sophisticated as the genetic tests being considered. We must explain test implications and outcomes, support those who choose a termination and give equal care to those who choose to continue their pregnancies. We need charities that aren't partnered with the test manufacturers.

If parents are rushed into terminations, or asked repeatedly if they would like to end their pregnancies, then we are certainly sending out the message that some lives are worth a great deal less than others.

We need the screening committee to welcome input from parental groups and self-advocates. We need to match up the wonderful examples of best practice by bringing committed midwives and learning disability nurses together, and we need to accept the value of difference.

Society has come a long way from the days when children with Down's syndrome were institutionalised with little or no love, educational support or quality healthcare. We hope Natty will find employment she enjoys, have a partner of her choosing, a social life fuller than ours and live a long, healthy life independently with support.

I cannot bear to think that one day I will have to explain to Natty why others think her adored life is not worth living, or even justify her very existence. But here I am, already doing just that.

And, most of all, I fear that one day I will be grieving, as others celebrate the eradication of all children like my beautiful daughter. No Natty, maybe it's not OK.

The BBC is making a documentary about Down's syndrome, which Hayley Gowleniowska is contributing to. If you are affected by the tests and interested in an initial off-the-record research chat, please contact Clare at [email protected].

OP posts:
CoteDAzur · 18/11/2015 20:07

"I find it harder to accept that we can't talk about a life without DS in any sensible way. What would this world look like? Would it be better? If so why? If not why not?"

That would be an interesting conversation but it is one we cannot have without being hurtful to parents of children with DS on this thread, who are taking everything we say personally as if it is a judgement on their own beloved children.

Owllady · 18/11/2015 20:08

You can test for cystic fibrosis in utero. I suppose you only would test if it was in your family, but you can test via cvs. This has been available for decades for those who required it. Cystic fibrosis is a particularly difficult/distressing disease. I'm sure those with experience would not wish it on anyone in the future in their family, whilst still loving those with it who already exist.

Alisvolatpropiis · 18/11/2015 20:12

Duck I would abort a foetus if a test for schizogrenia in utero showed it was very likely.

A friend of mine has a very severely autistic brother and once said if a test existed, she would terminate. As it is, it does not and she probably will never have children.

Stillwishihadabs · 18/11/2015 20:14

Who gets to say what is a disability crumbling ? What about high functioning ASD or dyslexia ? Lots of people believe these conditions also confer special talents or abilities. Would you terminate for those too ? I do believe in a women's right to choose, but it should be right to choose WHEN not WHICH.

caroldecker · 18/11/2015 20:15

orange unless you never practice contraception, you are "contributing to the ending of lives that are worth living' every time you have sex.

Duckdeamon · 18/11/2015 20:15

Orange, you sound strongly anti abortion in general. That is another debate.

Devilishpyjamas · 18/11/2015 20:17

God I think a world without people with learning disabilities in it would be a truly awful place. Not because everything is fluffy in the world of learning disabilities (far from it - my son has had a fucking awful year & if this is his future I fear for him), but because the learning disability world is a truly wonderful place. But if you've never been in the learning disability world you're never going to get it.

Owllady · 18/11/2015 20:18

Have you read the whole thread duck? Because your answer is within the information posted on the thread

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/11/2015 20:20

Yes..it's so sad people terminate because they don't get it.

Have just spent a wonderful couple of hours with my 9 year old DD smiling into my face and hugging me. :)

OrangeNoodle · 18/11/2015 20:20

I am pro choice. What I am not pro, is prenatal test results being the reason for a baby to go from being much wanted to being disposable, because of disability.

Duckdeamon · 18/11/2015 20:23

I have, yes, and am not sure what answer you mean. my understanding is that there are relatively few conditions that can be risk-estimated during early pregnancy without a risk of miscarriage (eg amnio, CVS). Following PPs points I wondered whether, were low risk testing available for many more conditions and disabilities, there would be similarly high termination rates amongst women who chose to have the tests.

Owllady · 18/11/2015 20:23

Yes, devilish, the club that no one wants to be in yet it's amazing, warm and funny at the same time.
I've had to run round the hydro pool again today as dd's sadistic physio obviously thinks it's amusing my flabby size 16 body does so, whilst other parents sit by the side of the pool and watch on in horror and bemusement. I also had to get changed in the men's communal changing rooms and was asked twice by drawing back of the curtain if I was ready yet (they are room with UN doored toilets ) it's such fun :o

Duckdeamon · 18/11/2015 20:25

You cannot really be pro choice and then say termination is not OK for certain reasons.

You can't turn back the clock on medical technology. Ultrasound is a prenatal test: would you deny women the information scans provide because they might decide to terminate?

Owllady · 18/11/2015 20:27

Duck, you might be surprised (or you maybe not) how many children with disabilities (especially severe/profound end) have no medical or environmental cause for their disability. It's really not unusual, I've forgotten the exact figure but it's 60/40 that have a cause I think if you take a typical special school. Or it might be 40/60, I forget

Brocklady · 18/11/2015 20:28

The reason no one wants to be in the 'club' is because it's not always fluffy and fun and lovely.

It's lonely. It's expensive. It's heartbreaking.

Devilishpyjamas · 18/11/2015 20:29

Incidentally my younger children have been very affected by their brother. Even moving around the house has to be fine in a certain way. But anyway a couple of years ago I was talking to ds2 about termination for DS (a news story came on) & he hadn't realised it happened & was visibly shocked & confused. He just kept saying 'but why would someone do that?'. I explained why in non-judgmental terms btw.

But anyway that's why the 'wouldn't be fair on the other children' comment gets my hackles up when said directly to me (couldn't give a stuff if not saud to me)- that's not what ds2 it ds3 would say at all - and that's despite ds1 impacting heavily on their lives (largely because SS won't do their job tbh).

It's given them an interesting life anyway. And I love that I can tell a 10 & 13 year old SS latest 'solution' & they can look at me & say straight away 'Are they mad? That won't work' & just know why something is an utterly ridiculous suggestion. Such an education!

Owllady · 18/11/2015 20:30

Don't patronise me brocklady, I'm the least fluffy person you'll ever meet

Alisvolatpropiis · 18/11/2015 20:31

Owl do those children get diagnosed with Swan, generally speaking? I've come across this diagnosis a few times recently and was genuinely shocked that there are so many conditions/disabilities which are so unknown that what they are diagnosed with is syndrome without a name. I had no idea.

CoteDAzur · 18/11/2015 20:31

"I do believe in a women's right to choose, but it should be right to choose WHEN not WHICH."

Why on earth not? Either you believe that a fetus is not a baby (in which case abortion is fine) or you believe a fetus is the same thing as a baby (and its termination equals murder).

If you understand that a fetus is not a baby, they you are OK with abortion and the reason for terminating the pregnancy is irrelevant - why would you feel it's OK when the reason is "I just want to finish university before having a baby" and not OK when it is "I don't want to have a child with a chromosomal abnormality"?

CoteDAzur · 18/11/2015 20:33

Nice namechange, devilishpyjamas Smile

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/11/2015 20:34

Life with my DD is not lonely..far from it. .have made lots of friends through her. She is not expensive and has simple tastes. And definitely not heartbreaking but heartwarming.

Brocklady · 18/11/2015 20:34

I am the other child.

I'm sure if you asked me as a teenager I'd have given a similar response.

Then, I didn't understand a lot of things I understand now.

Now I understand what it's like to sit in an A and E waiting room until 2 in the morning and go to work the next day. Now I understand what it's like to work five days and then go to work at the weekend as well because I need to provide financial support as my brother can't keep a job. Now I understand how draining it is to hear the same things over and over and over again. Now I understand how exhausting it is, how lonely it is, how, in short, miserable it is.

I know I am painting a very depressing outlook and it's only here I vent. We've had a particularly 'bad' six months which colours my view somewhat.

But anyone who thinks having a child with a disability is lovely - not always wonderful but always rewarding - isn't always right.

crumblybiscuits · 18/11/2015 20:36

Who gets to say what is a disability crumbling ? What about high functioning ASD or dyslexia ? Lots of people believe these conditions also confer special talents or abilities. Would you terminate for those too ? I do believe in a women's right to choose, but it should be right to choose WHEN not WHICH.

Disability is a completely unique and personal opinion. I say this as a disabled person. I would terminate any pregnancy that would negatively impact my daughters life for one, so yes, if I knew I would have a baby with incredibly complex needs I would terminate as my daughter didn't ask to be shunted to the back of my attention. Would you rather I had kept my DD2 and she suffered in pain for the short few months of her life? Just to make other people with my DD2's condition feel better?

That last part about choice didn't even make sense.

OrangeNoodle · 18/11/2015 20:36

Alis not usually. My son has a 'syndrome without a name'. It's not a diagnosis though, just a way of describing what's happening for children like him who have a constellation of health issues and disabilities.

Usually, children who are 'SWANs' are under a large medical team including geneticists and neurologists who will keep doing various tests and putting the children forward for research studies to try to find a diagnosis.

Brocklady · 18/11/2015 20:36

So your experiences are different to someone else's then Fanjo - you seem unable to accept that you have chosen one way of life and someone else might choose another.

Owl, I'm certainly not patronising you, but after the six months I've had, I'm afraid my outlook is jaded and defeated. I don't see anything 'lovely' here.