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Guest post: "My husband of 20 years is gay, and I have so many questions"

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 29/04/2015 14:22

At last, it has come out: a book that endeavours to explain why gay men marry straight women, written by a man who did just that, Charles Neal. Two years ago, when I discovered that my husband of 20 years was actually gay, I searched and searched for an answer to this question. No one had one: not my counsellor, my best friend or my close family. And the man who had played all these vital roles for such a large part of my adult life, and to whom I had always turned for guidance? He couldn't provide one either.

Although I am now beyond the ‘shock’ phase, I know there are many other women still there, desperate to understand how their (often otherwise happy) marriages have come to sudden and painful ends, as their husbands or partners come out, fall out or are pushed out of the closet.

I discovered my husband was gay when I found that he had been on gay porn websites and chat rooms over an extended period of time. I confronted him straight away, to which his response was, quite simply, "Busted!" I didn't react with anger but instead, bizarrely, with relief. Although I hadn't guessed that he was gay, I knew that he had been battling with depression for a couple of years, which I had taken to be the reason for his increased lack of interest in sex. He blamed his depression on work, mid-life, money – in fact, on anything other than the thing that must have been bursting to be busted for a long time.

My immediate instinct was to support him in his coming out. He started to grieve almost immediately, and I held his hand through the night as he repeated through sobs that I would never forgive him, that he had been so stupid, and that, if it weren't for the kids, he would want to die. Not only was his secret "busted", his heart was broken too, and now it felt like his mind was cracking by the day. I begged him to seek urgent therapy, which he did, but this process felt as if an outsider had torn the bandages off a series of seeping and raging wounds, leaving only me to nurse them. To be honest, I hadn't a clue how to deal with his breakdown.

My husband's raging sores refused to close up, which is hardly surprising after years of keeping his true sexuality concealed. I was left with so many questions: why didn't you tell me earlier? What shall we tell the children? Did you ever love me? Was all that love making pretend? Have you had many affairs? Do you resent me? When did you first really know that you were in the wrong relationship? And finally, as his self-hatred and anger turned from himself out towards me, why are you now hurting me more than you have done already? How has this turned you into a cruel, selfish and totally unrecognisable person?

Luckily, our children did not witness this final, painful stage in our marriage breakdown, when the verbal abuse became so extreme I had to give a final ultimatum for him to leave the family home. He had refused up until that point, the cruel phase causing him to say things like "you should leave – you've been the useless one in the marriage all along". The list of my failures was repeated to me every night, until I reached my own busting point. I was blessed with two or three very close friends who stood by me in ways that I will never forget. But at home, in my bed, every night, I have never felt so isolated. And two years later, that feeling still hovers like a ghost passing through the night.

My husband is now in a new relationship with a man. He is mentally stable, civil and helpful towards me and still a wonderful father. We told our children together that he is gay about six months before he moved out, and they have been incredibly supportive although, like all of us, they have good days and bad in the recovery process. My ex has a new group of friends – or 'tribe', as Charles Neal refers to it - and seems all the happier for it. He never refers to the painful time now, and has never apologised for or addressed the abuse that he hurled at me.

I am doing okay, but when I read about the 'tribe', it struck me that that is where I still struggle. My tribe has gone. My family nest has collapsed, and friends who once had us over for family Sunday lunches have suddenly gone quiet. My in-laws have gone awkwardly quiet too. I am strong, and my role as mum still keeps me smiling, of course. But when I think about the future that I had hoped we would have together - growing old, sharing worries, being grandparents, taking life easier in each other's arms - the fear of isolation kicks in.

Thankfully, there was one other place where I found solace. It is quite simply a group of women - wives and partners of gay men - who support each other on a forum just like Mumsnet. It is called English Wives, although sometimes I think it should be called Saving Lives, it has been so invaluable. They don't have all the answers either, but they have put a stop to that feeling of isolation. Some issues are still unanswered: why can't a wife or husband divorce their spouse on terms of adultery when they have sex with someone of the same sex? Why does the gay support network seldom offer support to loved ones left in the wake of the coming out process? Why do so many men wait until they are fifty and leave us on that middle shelf of shite, balancing our menopause on one side, and our children on the other?

Reflecting on the book again, I am relieved for the men Neal features - they have found expert help, support groups, new partners. If Neal could call his next one, What Straight Women Do Next, that would be even more helpful. Because I am still waiting for an answer to that one.

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 30/04/2015 21:17

notyet Thanks They are starting to be told In the last 3 years or so magazines like Easy Living and Red have run articles written by women who have sadly experienced this. EL was discontinued 2 years ago.

Red ran one just two months ago in the April issue. In that writers case she was also verbally and emotionally abused over her appearance. There is no excuse for this kind of behaviour.

notyet I hope you got some fulfillment and affection from your affair. Because you deserved to Thanks

HelenaDove · 30/04/2015 21:22

Mrs Joe Exactly Thats a bloody good example.

ChaiseLounger · 30/04/2015 21:37

You are amazing. The selfishness and self-centredness of your husband is astonishing.

ChaiseLounger · 30/04/2015 21:40

Many many men who married, knowing they were gay have since written about it.
The poster who said they may not know they are. Some don't know they are. But most do. They have lied and lied and lied and deceived their wife. Their whole marriage is a sham and a lie. But everyone is supportive of them now coming out. What about the wife left behind?

annapurna75 · 30/04/2015 22:20

ArcheryAnnie - there is a difference and that is the fact that if your hetro husband cheated on you or treated you badly no one would tell you it was their right to do it. However, a women's rights group and a gay support group told me that it was my husbands right to do this to me - why? because he was gay! It seems if your husband is gay then for some reason they seem to be able to have a right to do this!

annapurna75 · 30/04/2015 22:26

Thank you for telling your story so well. This seems to be happening to so many women, including me. More research is needed to understand what happens to the straight spouse. While the gay person can move on the straight spouse really struggles to continue with their life often becoming a single parent and living in near poverty while the gay person seems to be able to carry on their partying and seem to have money and time to start dating again. The gay charities don't seem to want to help the straight spouse and give little information to help the straight spouse. The book sounds very interesting.

crocodileshavenoears · 30/04/2015 22:29

annapurna75 - absolutely! My husband cheated on me with many men over the course of a year before finally coming out, and yet once he came out so many people rushed to tell him how brave he'd been. A whole group of women went round to put up a Christmas tree for him because they felt sorry for him having moved out just before Christmas. I don't think they'd have been in such a rush to help if his multiple affairs had been with women, but from my point of view there really wasn't much difference.

ArcheryAnnie · 30/04/2015 23:19

annapurna as someone who is both a woman and bent (bi, though have mostly gone out with women) I can tell you that any women's group or gay group that did that when I was present would have their arses kicked!

I understand that coming out is hard. But however hard it is, it doesn't give any man a right to behave badly to the woman they are leaving behind.

ArcheryAnnie · 30/04/2015 23:23

Just to be clear, I believe that anyone has a right to end a marriage, for whatever reason. But they shouldn't abuse or take for granted the person they are leaving, and they shouldn't be lauded for it if they do.

Anyone who excuses this kind of behaviour just because the man in question is gay is insulting all the gay people who manage not to destroy other people's lives when they come out.

notyetpastit · 01/05/2015 09:22

HelenaDove Thank you for the Flowers and your kind comments. My affair turned into a long term relationship of over seven years now but I still miss the loss of the planned family life especially now that I have a grandchild. There are wives who have suffered far more through emotional and physical abuse from their gay husbands and I really feel for them.

Sikawild · 01/05/2015 09:24

desiderata17: No crime? she talks of domestic abuse, perhaps not violence but abuse none the less.

MajesticWhine: While not all marriages are the same people tend to judge by their own circumstances. My GH had UNPROTECTED sex with men before our marriage, (in one case the week before we married) and all throughout our marriage.

Im guessing he may have had some little inkling of his sexuality, which is more than I had.

Regardless of his sexuality he is a liar, a bully and a cheat. He took away my choices. By his own admission he said 'If he had told me I wouldn't have married him', and he's right I wouldn't have married him and neither would I if the sex had been with women.

Throughout our marriage my GH has been abusive, it does not matter what excuses can be given for is internal turmoil the result is that he abused me and put me at risk of sexually transmitted disease. Sexuality is not an excuse for such appalling behaviour, just as neither is gender or race.

wannaBe · 01/05/2015 09:28

sorry but IMO if you're married then there is no way to come out which doesn't involve destroying someone else's life. Yes some do it a bit more brutally than others, but ultimately the result is the same - coming out as gay destroys everything that a marriage was about and makes the entire relationship a sham from beginning to end. I agree fwiw that anyone has the right to end any relationship, but when doing so there are consequences, and ending a relationship means being aware of and responsible for those consequences.

notyetpastit · 01/05/2015 10:07

The group that has been the most supportive to me throughout the past few years is Straight Partners Anonymous which can be reached at the following address - [email protected]

ArcheryAnnie · 01/05/2015 10:46

I agree, wannaBe - I was referring to people who managed to come out without having used other people or been cavalier about their, including having made promises (like marriage) that they would be unable to keep.

annapurna75 · 02/05/2015 10:46

Archery Annie - My point is that gay groups are encouraging lies and deceits - one of the well respected gay support groups in this country openly says on its website to gay men "its ok to have sex with other men and not tell your wife". If this is how gay people (and I do believe there are gay people who do not believe this) are behaving how can they ever think that people will respect gay marriage? How can it be ok to lie about this and put your health and that of your partner and unborn child at risk?

Perhaps you have never considered how it feels to not know if your husband was ever actually in love with you but used you to get children. My mother in law was behind my back letting my son call her mum.

I am now left with 2 children - one who is disabled and I do feel that this should have taken priority over "his sexual needs". Its all well and good saying people have the right to be gay but it leaves everyone else in the family with basically no life! Our Government does not want to support single parents or disabled people but at the same time people are happy for gay parents to walk out of their marriages. I would never put my sexual needs above that of my children but it seems that this is a "normal" thing to do these days.

There may well be gay people who have managed to come out whilst being fair to the person left behind but in all the women I have had contact with that this has happened to I have never met one - and I have spoken to over 100!

The fact that you cannot get divorced for this does not help. When your husband turns to you and says "I have done nothing wrong, this is my right I don't have to do anything for you" and society backs him up we have a problem.

annapurna75 · 02/05/2015 11:11

crocodileshavenoears - absolutely, my friends were upset that he didn't spend the first Christmas apart with his children. He never asked to and spent the Christmas before that on the phone to gay chat lines anyway, he wasn't bothered about it yet some of my friends felt sorry for him! His gay life took over his whole life. unbelieveable!

HelenaDove · 03/05/2015 01:20

notyet Im glad you have found some happiness.

annapurna that is truly shit. Im so sorry.

Im shocked that you cant divorce for it. We have gay marriage (and so we should) but surely the particular loophole you describe should have been closed to seal the circle.

lawuntomyself73 · 03/05/2015 03:02

I am the partner of a gay guy who left his wife and two kids 9 years ago. It's not the type of history i thought the man I would end up with long term would come from, but i love him very much and we hope to get married soon ourselves.
I sympathise greatly with the women here who feel they were betrayed by a partner who now has his new life, whilst they are left feeling they were used, and with many questions. My partner's ex wife makes it obvious that she feels like this, and whilst she is amazingly friendly to me, she can be brutal and hostile to my partner as she sees fit, defending her behaviour because she feels he has no rights to complain. Regrettably he is so consumed by guilt that he will not ever argue or answer her back.
I don't know that all examples here are representative of what it's like for all men who come out after being married, and i certainly suspect that this book mentioned at the start of the thread could not possibly explain the millions of ways gay men who leave marriages cope or move on - my partner never had a 'tribe' to run to. The bit that amazes me here is how little mention there has been of the effect this has on the children of a marriage.
My partners kids have learned to be controlling, demanding and manipulative to play their parents off against each other to get what they want, as both parents are terrified of being 'the bad one'. I urge all readers not to judge, or over simplify, in their opinions about this - for many men this is a torture that they see no way round.
It is easier to deride being gay and live a sham life than actually be gay from what i can see. I wish all the women that have written of their despair upon finding their husband is gay the strength and drive to get through their pain, but would ask respectfully to remind you that any thought that your partner is now living the high life whilst you mop up the pieces may not be true - my partner is deeply affected by his actions, and as his new partner I, and his kids, are in turn affected too. Thank you.

ArcheryAnnie · 03/05/2015 12:45

Regrettably he is so consumed by guilt that he will not ever argue or answer her back.

Why "regrettably"?

The bit that amazes me here is how little mention there has been of the effect this has on the children of a marriage.

That may be because many of the women here know what effect this has on the children, because they are the ones picking up the pieces every day.

I have to say, you are rather proving the point that it's all about your partner's angst, not about the family he left behind.

MerryMarigold · 03/05/2015 13:31

I think the kids ex wife is great to speak to you, law, let alone be kind and friendly, after such a betrayal. If we do something wrong, we have to live with the guilt and not expect it to be gone or have expectations to be tested well by thur wronged party. I had an affair and it never would have crossed my mind that the ex wife should be nice to me!! I would have expected any communication to be hostile and would never think that it east my right to answer back or argue with someone I had hurt so badly.

MerryMarigold · 03/05/2015 13:33

Sorry for typos. Not kids ex wife! Your partners ex wife.

lawuntomyself73 · 03/05/2015 20:56

To Archery Annie - yes, it is regrettable because whilst he did something wrong by marrying her that he now regrets, there is nothing he can do now to undo that he told his ex wife who he really was. There is nothing he can do to stop her rage, her sadness, her anger when she feels like lashing out at him.

I'm not sure if everyone here realises that whilst there is obviously great concern for an ex wife's recovery from a discovery like this, MANY gay men have / had no idea who they are at the time they marry OR are fully aware whether they are gay. You can say this is me making excuses for my partner - but i want to be clear that i am equally baffled that he could not know his own sexual orientation as he said 'I do' to his ex wife, or as he had kids - but i do think he deserves to get on with his own life now.

He does, also, especially where his kids are concerned, have every right to stand up for himself when his ex wife is being unreasonable. He made a mistake and whilst the vengeful side of many people wants him to pay for the rest of his life for it, he is also a good dad, a generous and loving and kind person and a good human being.

It's interesting that you wrote about the family being 'left behind' - this wasn't the case here. My partner remained and remains close to his kids and ex wife - even though it hasn't been an easy journey. You have written that the women end up picking up the pieces but my partners kids openly tell us their Mum did no such thing. It's easy to be judgemental here - I was just asking for consideration of the fact that this dumb book mentioned at the start of this strand, or anyone else's story, is not necessarily a 'norm' for these situations.

lawuntomyself73 · 03/05/2015 21:05

To MerryMarigold - Yes, she is friendly and good to me. And I am lucky that we have that when she has been so badly hurt by a man who is now my partner. I don't know how any women would cope with this. I understand your comparison between this and an affair - I guess it's about the degree of intention, selfishness and deception?

Even though my partner screwed up royally, do you not think he has the right to say 'you're not looking after the kids safety / education / diet'?
Just because he is now gay and out does he not have any rights to say 'I have rights to see the kids?' or 'Can we sort this out?'

Sure - no-one can begin to understand her feelings - least of all me. But where does the blame stop and the repair start for her? And how do we help?

I appreciate your candour and comments.

annapurna75 · 04/05/2015 09:30

In answer to the questions about children. My children do not know yet. I feel until my x can deal with everything then the children cannot know. I have not found any sites that help disabled children to deal with their parent being gay. Yet again, another thing that is totally missed by everyone!

My x turns up (sometimes on time or at all) and when he does the kids think he is to wonderful because he feeds them junk food, lets them do what they want - including not having to wash because - apparently real men do not wash! He thus, undoes all the work that I do.
He has never once asked me what help I need. In fact he told me he didn't want to help me at all.

I have had to give up my career because I can no longer work evenings, I work a crappy, low paid job just so I can get a pension and buy a few extra things like pay for children's activities.

I do think it very convenient that for many men their discovery of becoming gay happens after they have produced children. I certainly feel that all I was, was the female to carry the baby. The law does not protect us from this at all. I think there will be many more cases of this as gay people want children so its easy to use someone of the other sex to get this, then dump them out of the way, pick the kids up when you want to have fun with them, pay a small percentage of your wage. What a great life for them!

I think the gay community should be doing more to say explain that it is one thing to come out as gay and it is your right but you also have responsibilities - you should be helping your x, you should be paying properly for your children, you should be helping your x to be able to move on with her/his life. You should be honest to your spouse and not let them find out another way. This is not happening - all we hear about is the gay persons rights. For my part I have given up everything and yet I am here several years later with no divorce, no career, mimimal social life, and the worst thing - I don't feel a proper mum. Whilst I watch my friends going off on holidays with their children I have to let my children go off and be away from me - I do all the work and yet I have to do what is so unnatural for any mother - be away from my children. I feel I am going to be punished forever all because I married a man who was not brave enough to say he was gay.

GuestPoster · 04/05/2015 17:32

Thank you for all the comments regarding my blog. The response has been overwhelming, and I am touched by your kind support. I just wanted to highlight a few things and respond to some of you individually. Firstly, although my ex did behave in a selfish way after he came out, it was totally clear to me that this was part of his breakdown. When he realised that he had to, at last, face his sexuality, his spiral into an irrational state, self-hatred and anger was totally out of character. My point was that he was having a complete breakdown, and that as much as I thought I could help him with his coming out, I felt helpless when it came to mental illness. He is now, thankfully in recovery, civil, helpful and wonderful with the boys, and mentally very stable again. Yes, I did suffer as a result, and am still picking up the pieces, but mental illness is never easy when it hits a family. Even if it is a family that is breaking up.
I wasn't always that generous to my ex, I can assure you, and I had several occasions when I lashed back with anger and fear. I was not the perfect caring friend all the time that I may have made myself out to be, inadvertendly, but I knew that one of us had to stay calm and focused in order to protect the kids. I shut down into a silent space, most of the time while he went through it. However, my instinct and actions were caring, about 90% of the time. The rest, I shut down.

MajesticWhine, you are right. It is not black and white at all, and I believe that my ex was in denial, not deceit, for a very long time. I also fundamentally believe that he loved me dearly when we married,and for many years after that. He may even still love me, for all I know, but for now, until he acknowledges some of the pain he put me through during his breakdown, I find it hard to find that love again, albeit as a friend. When I see him now, I feel as if I am in a dream, seeing this person I once knew, but not really being able to communicate with him.I feel very detached. However, chaiselounger and wannabe, I do not think that my marriage was a sham, and our children are the most wonderful products of many years of happiness.

My warmest thoughts to those of you, such as Crocodileshavenoears and notyetpastit and annapurna75 who have also been through it and I hope that you seek the support that you need and deserve.

And finally, to the poster lawuntomyself73 - it was so great to see a response from a gay man, and they were wise words. I don't think that my ex is leading the high life at all, but he did have several gay support groups to seek out when he came out, several of whose members he then dated. That is the tribe that I, and Neal, the book's author referred to - the gay community. The community where I sought support, however, English Wives, was (and still is) wonderful, but different somehow. We don't date, for example or have residential recovery weekends. I don't know where I fit anymore, and my ex has admitted that he is very relieved and happy to be living and embracing his new world. Albeit while still embracing his role as a father. However, I don't think for a minute that all is hunky dory for him. i know that he still suffers from the whole process. Our children are doing pretty well, I hope, although we both keep a close eye on them, and talk through all the issues as often as we can. We both do our utmost to avoid them feeling that they have to side with one of us, or playing them off against us etc. etc. We have dinner together as a family every other week, and are pretty open. There may be problems ahead, but as someone who grew up in a broken family, I think we are doing pretty well in contrast with my parents. I would have written more about this in the blog, but only had 1200 words to play with, and wanted to keep it relevant to the subject of the book, which is what the focus of the article was. I wish you and your partner well, and his children well.

Once again, thanks everyone. Onwards and upwards. And for anyone going through bad times, this is the song that got me through the long nights