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Guest post: Child maintenance fees - 'you've made your bed, now lie in it’?

87 replies

KateMumsnet · 22/05/2014 16:57

This week, more than 50,000 letters have been sent out by the Department for Work and Pensions to parents in England, Scotland and Wales who currently pay and receive child maintenance through the old Child Support Agency (CSA).

Attempting to sum up the changes in a nutshell is difficult; there are acronyms aplenty and percentages at every corner - but here goes:

The CSA is no more, and is being replaced by the Child Maintenance Service (CMS). Around one million cases will be transferred to the new arrangements, with the government saying that this scheme will offer greater efficiencies and - whisper it - a 90 million pound saving for the tax payer.

The major difference is that fees are set to be introduced – to both parents – under the new scheme. Parents will be asked to make their own private agreements and if that proves impossible, the parent with care (PWC) - usually the mother - can pay £20 to apply for a new maintenance order.

If the non resident parent (NRP) – most of whom are men – misses payments, the PWC can apply for payments to be taken automatically from their ex’s gross salary - but the government will charge them 4% of their child support for doing so.

There seems to be a growing feeling amongst taxpayers that they should not have to fund the messy divorces of warring couples. As one half of a warring (ex) couple, it feels like the message from the government is: you've made your bed, now lie in it.

They assume that it's a choice - a wilful act, to be on terrible terms with the father of your children. And one that a woman can reverse by just trying a bit harder. Of course it's not a choice - as Caroline Criado-Perez argues, one third of new applicants only turned to the CSA because private arrangements had failed - 45% had experienced violence or abuse from their ex, and 30% had no contact with them at all.

Even if your separation has been relatively amicable, coming to a private agreement is immensely difficult. I did it – eventually - preferring not to approach the CSA for all sorts of reasons, but it was incredibly stressful. When you're in the middle of a divorce, seeing your ex across the street is hard, never mind sitting down and having a rational conversation about handing over money. It us took 18 months of hard-wrangling and sly game-playing (on both sides) - with a predictable negative impact on my health and therefore my ability to look after my children.

There are people who can help, but they are inordinately expensive; when you have the choice of paying a solicitor at £200 per hour, or a £20 fee to the CMS it's a no-brainer. But women shouldn't have to choose between one fee and another – at this particular time in their lives, they need a service that is free to use.

Because, at the heart of all this blather are not the parents, but the children. The government seem to have lost sight of the fact that Child Support is there, as the phrase suggests, to support our children. It's the children who will miss out on that 4%.

When I was younger, I assumed that the people who made Laws and Rules were highly educated civil servants with brains the size of planets; all sitting at individual desks in oak panelled rooms, wrestling with the problems of the nation and coming to conclusions that are best for us all.

Now that I'm older and fustier, I now see that these rule-makers are just people like you and me, and they make cock-ups. In this case, they have certainly done so.

OP posts:
meandcoffeeequalhappy · 23/05/2014 07:10

Pandachu - thank you for that interesting. You are right the media storm is exaggerated. But it still is worrying that there will now a scaled down, less effective version of CSA. And domestic violence is not the only reason for not wanting direct contact - there is financial and emotional abuse, controlling behaviour. Don't underestimate the effects that has on people. It still means that the RP is held to ransom, and how "enforceable" is it really, the CSA was not exactly brilliant at enforcing anything or particularly advanced to deal with different earning methods. The controls over monies earned by the NRP was poor, no checking of P60s, 'bonuses' etc etc. Personally, I would have preferred the system to be like the american one, monies deducted as a percentage of that month "tax", take all squabbles and emotion out of it and use it to provide for the children and give them the best start possible. IMO the system needed to become more efficient, not dumbed down. I wouldn't even mind if payment was taken, if it was honest and worked.

sanityseeker75 · 23/05/2014 12:18

The parents who use the CSA are the ones with abusive / controlling / plain nasty ex partners. If a private agreement could be reached, they would have done

Reallly - sweeping statement? My DH pays through the CSA because in 2004 his ex was on income support and therefore she had no choice but to claim through CSA despite what either of them wanted. It has always been easier to just carry on despite changes because every time either have them have had challenges it has been a nightmare. She even called them once whilst he was there because she had waited 4 months for her money from them despite knowing he had paid it and they told her he had changed jobs and had not paid?!? Needless to say she said well hold on he is here and passed the phone over to him - you can imagine how that conversation went Grin.

Whist I don't agree that the system should involve rp having to pay to get child support I know from both my DH's experience and my own with my ex that a lot depends on your case worker and most are completely shite! Can't see that changing just because they have renamed it.

bubbles3563 · 23/05/2014 15:48

Great post; I agree. As someone who left an abusive relationship, the government now seem to expect me to call up my daughter's father and ask him for money - after 2 years of doing everything I can to keep him away from us. This new arrangement will mean a lot of children miss out all together. Although some posters feel £20 shouldn't be too much for the RP to find in order to set up a claim - trust me when I say £20 can be the difference between having dinner on the table for the next few days, and not.

To me, this is the government punishing single parents - and more importantly, their children - for the breakdown of a relationship.

www.singlemotherahoy.com/2014/05/dear-csa-you-stink.html

meandcoffeeequalhappy · 23/05/2014 19:17

I was also thinking, single RP are one of the groups most at risk of deprivation/poverty. This is well researched. It is very hard to work full time, in a career building job, and have young children. Some RP have been full time carers for their children before the relationship breakdown. Which puts their income generating abilities at risk. I can't help thinking that punishing a demographic who may already have it tough, is the wrong way to go about this. I am not advocating keeping the CSA, they are simply not fit for purpose, but I am not convinced their replacement is going to exactly help children or their carers.

KookyGirlBlog · 23/05/2014 20:09

Guess what ? The CSA also continue to collect money from the AP when the NAP is no longer entitled to it. Even when the parent of the child is no longer in receipt of child benefit and the child has left school and has a full-time job. I know that there are a lot of awful XPs out there, but not all of these are male - remember that it's not 100% of cases where the NAP gets the rough deal. I can only thank the lord that my days of dealing with all that are over.

activear · 23/05/2014 21:41

A single parent friend of mine receives £5 a month, or rather she's supposed to receive it. It's been six years and she hasn't managed to receive a penny yet The NRP is self employed and apparently not earning anything.

I'm wondering if she'll bother to spend £20, she can ill afford, for their 'services'

Kaya06 · 23/05/2014 22:22

Everyone always goes on about the mothers losing out what about the ex partners who use the csa as a weapon against the exs.. While they spend all the kids money on their lifestyle and kids go without I know of a few cases where this is the case and seen it first hand and I also know women who do breed so they don't have to work... It should be means tested system some fathers go without while there exs have new partners that support them and a few dads supporting them.

AskBasil · 24/05/2014 00:01

Blah blah misogynist shit... blah blah... women are bitches ... blah blah poor menz blah blah...

Jesus.

EasyTigeress · 24/05/2014 00:17

How can a NRP be punished by a RP going to CSA or CMS? All that is taken is the minimum amount of CM for their income. I'm not sure how it's punishment to expect a NRP to contribute financially towards their children

TheGirlFromIpanema · 24/05/2014 00:22

Kaya ODFOD please

TheGirlFromIpanema · 24/05/2014 00:25

I know Tigeress, the poor loves. Being hounded, nay forced to contribute the absolute bare minimum required towards the upkeep of their children by the nasty spiteful breeders who stole their sperm, eh?

Wink
AskBasil · 24/05/2014 01:11

Oh this is very funny

Mark Steel on CSA changes

Kaya06 · 24/05/2014 07:14

Well actually I am a single mother who works my arse off to support my kid. Just sick if hearing all about these poor mothers who sit back and expect the dads to pay and get benefits that us taxpayers pay for... I understand there is cases out there that need csa if they are in a abusive relationship but I do know women who use it as a tool to threaten fathers if they don't do what the want I also knew people that say that they need to get pregnant and work this is people I know also a family member so use can say blah blah all use want but it is the fact about some mothers

Lweji · 24/05/2014 08:00

CSA should not be a threat, except in the cases where the father doesn't pay.

As for "trapped" men, children is a risk they take for sex, as we do. Those men have the option of using condoms.

superstarheartbreaker · 24/05/2014 08:04

The CSS should be used as a threat if me are behaving badly IMO. My child's father hasn't paid a penny but nor do I want him to. Like someone else said on here... Blah blah misogynist shite.

EasyTigeress · 24/05/2014 08:19

Well Kaya all I can say is you clearly have poor taste in acquaintances.

For the record, I work, I pay tax and I financially support my daughter by myself (I also am quite happy for my taxes to be used however the government see fit). However I still have a CMS case open because my daughter has a feckless Dad who doesn't and hasn't contributed financially ever.

Just because I can support my daughter alone doesn't mean I should. Her father has a financial responsibility towards her whether he likes it or not.

I would also like to point out that we were married and our daughter was conceived after multiple miscarriages so quite clearly 100% planned by both of us.

I don't really seem to fit your stereotype do I? Also CSA/CMS can only ever be used as a thread if the NRP are not paying anything in the first place. And quite honestly, even if a RP was on benefits it doesn't absolve the NRP from the obligation to support their children financially, the same as having a feckless CM dodging ex doesn't absolve mine.

starlight1234 · 24/05/2014 08:23

I really don't understand why people suggest CSA as a threat if you are paying the minimum or more than the minimum payments would either stay the same or reduce.

Kaya I work my ex doesn't so yes I want his measly £5 a week so he contributes something towards his son. He has no access and as I mentioned elsewhere while I am in receipt of that money I also know he is alive.

I am not financially dependant upon him but I do think he should pay towards his child.

I find that people on this thread are happy for the NRP to get away with it appalling.

starlight1234 · 24/05/2014 08:30

ask basil ..great article

EasyTigeress · 24/05/2014 08:33

Askbasil

Thank you so much for posting that, it made my morning Grin

This made me choke on my coffee - poor DD didn't know if I was laughing, crying and just plain old choking to death.

Once again, the poor taxpayer forks out. Because there are two types of people in Britain – those who use up taxes, with their schools and fire engines and libraries and lampposts and claims for maintenance; and somewhere, over a distant hill, the taxpayers, an entirely separate tribe, every day screaming, “Oh, what am I being asked to pay for now?

Jeordie · 24/05/2014 08:46

I agree that there are some people out there who actually abuse the system be it the RP or NRP. There are plenty out there who fit in to both categories who would. However, every person who has a child has an obligation, like it or not, to support that child.

In some cases the CSA/CMS is the only option. But this whole new system needs a massive re-think. Something needs to be put in place for those with evidence that their ex is violent and abusive so that they don't have to deal with them. The whole 20% and 4% needs another rethink.

Example: Both separated parents are on benefits for whatever reasons. The government say that the NRP has to pay the flat rate of £7. They can't reach any agreement so the RP has to pay £20 to open a case with the CMS as it's the only way their child is going to be in receipt of any support. To further things she/he will also have 4% deducted. Many say ok, 4% isn't that much but when on benefits having that £20 taken and that 4% deducted can sometimes mean having a decent meal on the table or not. It's likely going to push people further in to poverty. And how exactly does that help the whole thing about child poverty exactly?

Kaya06 · 24/05/2014 08:46

Easy tigress getting personal about who I know I never once said these are friends I work with the public and know many people who I work with or care for..... And am not saying all women do this am saying some just like all dads are not dead beat dads.. My kid dad was also abusive to
Me and preferred the drink rather see his kid I do know both sides

EasyTigeress · 24/05/2014 08:53

No one has once said that all NRP are deadbeats. In fact it hasn't even been suggested.

AskBasil · 24/05/2014 09:19

Kay06 you posted something which implied that you think men don't have a duty to pay for the upkeep of the children they co-produce.

Which means that it's hard to take your posts seriously.

Kaya06 · 24/05/2014 09:55

I never once said that I said it's not always the dads that abuse the system as there is cases where it's the mother who abuses the system.. And the repose on here was attack as if it is not a valid point that it's not always the dad.. The system should take in consideration all factors

EasyTigeress · 24/05/2014 10:23

Yes Kaya there will always be people who abuse these systems on both sides, however that wasn't what you said. What you said was that some RP use it as a weapon. How is it used as a weapon when all that would be getting taken would be the minimum payment due in relation to their salary? Please explain that.

Abuse of a system is not the same as using it as a weapon. And whilst you never said that men shouldn't pay towards their children's upbringing in those exact words you heavily implied it and did actually say that using these services to obtain CM from a NRP should be means tested. You said that there are some RP who have new partners who support them and the NRP go without. Does having a new partner mean that your childs biological NRP should then not have to contribute financially to their upbringing?

Could you imagine if a RP said to a NRP you have a new partner now and I am still single so really your partner should contribute x amount to the upbringing of our child? That would go down like a lead balloon. Not to mention is completely unrealistic and unfair.