Is it worth paying for a private education or can state schools really manage a very bright boy?

[AvenaLife]

Just wondering. ds(9) starts a new school in a couple of weeks, I've just spent a small fortune on his uniform and have yet more fees that will push me to the verge of destruction. Is it really worth it though? The school's lovely, small classes and ds will have a great time. He's ahead by 5 years in maths and at least 7 years for literacy but can a state school really accomodate him? He's outspoken and likes to be listened to (I know this is a problem) so I think he'll have problems but at the same time the fees are a huge burdon. I think I just need some kind words please.

Riven if your DS wants to borrow any of my Uni texts just ask, the degree was religion and philosophy

.. although it's hardly difficult to prove the non-existence of God

If he could really prove it he'd be the first.

Philosophising upon the existence of God^

We'll send him next door, lead of Philosophy modules is there, he's a Phd and calls himself agnostic.

I have a mcopy of intro to world religions reader that would be quite handy for a swift clip round the head LOL

when my DS was interviewed for his school he argued that the concept of an all powerful being was the emotional prop of the needy - with the RE teacher. And explained to the Chemistry teacher that his brother developed autism as a result of his MMR and that those who deny it are usually on the payrole of the pharaceutical companies.

I fell over when he got in. I expect the other guy on the panel was un-insultable somehow!

The school sounds great and I'm sure your son will do well there. That's something we all aim for and something to pat yourself on the back for.

It sounds far harder on you though. I think having a frank chat with the school about the fees and any bursaries would be a very good idea. Are there any ways to reduce the impact on you? Packed lunches (more work )? Going via the County Music Service rather than extracurricular music at the school (not sure if the County Services are open to those in independent schools - I would hope so - or if they are in fact cheaper).

Changing schools again might not be such a great idea, but I do know that choristers at choir schools tend to pay lower fees. A very long shot, but just to put it into the mix.

oh NB have you looked at the NAGTY website? (via google). might or might not be useful re state school provision.

Dumb question, but could OP not home-ed, surely that's another type of solution to aspects of her situation?

You've made your decision - live with it. It is detrimental to your child to keep doubting and to keep switching.

Justaboutgrownup and riven - I am with you. There is SO much more to education than academic learning - manners, appropriate behaviour and social ease are all important lessons too. And I think a lot about the pressure on my daughter to be (in my opinion) inappropriately adult - I spend a lot of time countering the social pressure for her to be a sexual being before her time, for example. I think the same applies to other forms of precocious behaviour. Children have at the most 16 years to be children - they have 60 or 70 to be adults.

ds wasn't doing too badly at his old school until a new head bought (sp?) it. The new head is a devout catholic, which is fine, ds accepts this although he does not believe in god, he knows that other people are entitled to their own opinions and views. However, the head has sought fit to put RE on the curriculum. This was fine by me until I had a chat with ds and discovered the head had gone around the class asking what faith the children are. Later RE classes involved the head telling the children that they should worship god and there is no other, god made the universe etc. ds (ds does not believe in god and has become a Jedi), popped his hand up and asked where all the other faiths fit in and was promptly told to shut up as the head was teaching the class. I didn't quite believe ds at first until I had a chat with other parents and the head. He has told me that ds is too opinionated amongst other things. He doesn't like one parent families and has made this very clear to me, that I am failing my son has he does not have a permanent role model.

To be honest with you, I'm not sure what's been going on at the school. Other parents have told me that their children have told them that ds is told off all the time for little things when others are not, ds has also said this to me. His teacher has always said that ds does not cause any problems in class (but he does need to take others views into account which we are working on). He's not disruptive, he puts his hand up and he contributes and he listens.
I think he's socially behind, he can be silly outside class (I have seen him with other boys from the old school and he behaves the same as they do.) He does backtalk, I'm trying to stop this but he feels that he has to get his point across because he want to explain why he has done something. The new school know about this as I have told them. I'm not expecting people to bend over backwards to accomodate him, I do however, need to make sure he gets support from school, academic and pastoral, so that he can grow to be a nice person. He wasn't getting the support he needed to do this. The tellings off and the discipline was inconsistant, ds was permanently removed from a club for laughing (with another child) at another child who was rolling around on the floor, the other children were allowed to stay (I was outside and heard everything). He picked up on this and could see that it was unfair. I do expect ds to conform to rules, it's part of life but I don't think how things like this help him, they just cause more problems. If you have any ideas how I can enourage ds to know his place as a child and not see himself as having equal status as adults I would be very grateful. Please.

Choosy: The choir's a great idea. I'll look into that. He can sing but doesn't have alot of faith in himself. The lunches are included in the fees. I'm going to look for a job that pay's me more money.

Sorry, ment to say that I don't expect the school to work miracles, just to be consistent. He's got good manners, he's kind to younger children and is helpful in class.

I just need to tackle the back answering. Any suggestions?

I dont debate with him, he'd never stop talking and I'd end up shouting at him so I don't do this.
I'm trying to teach him that if he is asked/told to do something/not to do something then he shouldn't reply. If he is asked an open ended question (why/how/if etc) then he can reply, aswell as trying to accet what he is told. Do you think this is wrong though? The problem I have is that he will say "what have I done?" "I don't know what I've done". It's always the same. I don't know if he's aware that he's back answered and he's trying to open a discussion or if his mouth has overtaken his brain and he truly doesn't know what he's done. If I tell him he's always appologetic, 9/10 times he doesn't repeat it. They didn't tell him at school though so he'd spend all day worrying about what he'd been told off for if you see what I mean. I'm not sure how to solve this one. I need to get him to engage brain before opening mouth.

I'm just not sure whether he knows he's overstepped the line or not. It's so hard to tel with him. He's so bright I'm sure he must know what he's said but he's so convincing and looks so remorceful. I agree with the social skills. I've been using a book at home to help him, it's worked wonders here. I recommended it to his teacher, he said he would get a copy but he didn't. He's not to bad at recognising emotions, he can tell when I'm pissed off etc. We sit and people watch when we are in town and I get him to look at people's expressions to think of how they are feeling. He's good at this. Socially, he does tend to feed off other children, if he's with someone silly, he'll be silly. If he's with someone quiet then he'll be quiet. If he's with someone argumentative then he'll be the same back. It's difficult sometimes. He has a friend at his old school who is very immature. We went to the cinema with him and his mum and they were a nightmare, the kid wanted to run around, I wouldn't let ds because I don't want him behaving that way so ds was in a right strop. I don't think the lemming training is working in the right way. He's fine with me though, the odd backchat. I can't be with him all the time though. I've banned him from seeing his friend and I feel bad about that.

Having made this choice to private ed I think you need to bite the bullet and get on with it. It wouldn't be fair to keep moving schools, especially if this school is going to push him academically and be more tolerant of his personality.

I know families who have downsized their house to fund their children's education, extended their mortgages and, whilst looking back, I realise what a frugal existence we lived for my mum to put my brother and I through prep school. There is of course a financial cut-off point and the recent hikes in private ed fees have been substantial but certainly whilst it's feasible, do it imo.

This level of personal sacrifice is quite common in London where Stabvest High simply isn't an option so lots of parents go private out of what feels like necessity, but in Derby you might feel more out on a limb, but there will be other parents doing exactly as you are doing.

If my dcs school doesn't cater for their needs, I might well be joining you!

Avenalife, I have to say that I have often read your threads and thought that what your son needs more than anything is a firm set of boundaries regarding social boundaries. Please don't think I am being critical, I am speaking as a former child-who-saw-the-injustices-of-the-world.

I was a bright kid, possibly not scarily, as your son, but I was assessed as having the IQ of an 8 year old at the age of 2.

I remember finding it impossible to accept the injustices that presented themselves at school. For instance, why was I made to do art when I was clearly much better at maths. Other children were allowed to do maths while I had to do art.

I was very unhappy at secondary school, and had frequent disagreements with my teachers, because they were often hypocritical. A clear example being the head teacher berating children for wearing make-up whilst wearing the whole of a maxfactor counter. Or the teacher telling a girl off for having a little necklace on, whilst jangling 10 bracelets on one arm.

I was bored at times, but actually what I needed was to realise that sometimes life isn't fair, and that there is a difference between your personal viewpoint, and your behaviour.

Your son can wholeheartedly disagree with a teacher's point of view, and when he gets to Uni it will stand him in good stead. But until then, he will have to learn that there is a time and a place for his opinion, and that he has to learn to show respect to his teachers in class time. Whether he actually FEELS respect for them is irrelevant. (I personally think that respect is earned, not deserved) He has to learn that there are times when he has to button his lip, put his head down and do his work.

It won't do him any favours to wait until his adult years to learn that there will always be someone with more authority than you, and that you sometimes have to learn a bit of diplomacy.

Heated: Thanks, I am just wondering whether the state system would cater for him better. There's more access to professional support so there are plus and negative points. I think I'm just getting pre wedding school jitters. I have made a decision, daunting as it is.

Lou: I really am trying to help him to learn what is appropriate and what is not. He is doing this, he's had the odd set back but most of his progress has been positive. I have asked for help on here before for him but I can honestly say that he's not the same as he was when I needed to do this. I am trying to teach him to button it. He's getting there, he's polite 99% of the time, he's considerate and patient but he's not had the support from school that would have helped him get there faster. It is my responsibility, I accept that but if he has one person saying one thing and another saying something completely different then it's hard going.

I don't know if it's the right way to go or not but I'm trying to teach him that sometimes people have reasons for needing others to do something/not to do something and it's OK just to do them without asking why. He hasn't grasped this yet though. He wants a reason for everything. I have boundaries when he's with me, he's fine (unless he's with his friend, even then he's pulled up if he crosses the bondary). They are probably old threads you remember, he's not the same anymore. I just need to tweak this.

He sounds like the perfect child - good behaviour 99% of the time. What is the real problem?

AvenaLife, I am sorry if you thought I was criticising your handling of this. You clearly have an awareness of his need to learn social boundaries, it just didn't come across in your OP. You seemed to be accepting that he thought he should be treated as an adult.

I am glad he is getting there - life will be a little easier for him when he does.