Primary school experience

[Inyournewdress]

I don’t personally label DD ‘gifted and talented’ as a category, I am not sure exactly what it means and I think she is maybe just a bit ahead of schedule and has a good memory, along with obviously being bright in several ways. There are definitely aspects of development where she is behind her peers, either because she hasn’t picked something up as quickly or because we haven’t given her the exposure we should have. I just wanted to post here because I don’t want to be seen as stealth boasting or anything.

We have just been allocated our third choice of primary school so I have been looking at their curriculum. I have noticed that in maths DD has a good grasp of everything covered in both Reception and Year one. She is also a fairly fluent reader. My mum is a retired junior school teacher and thinks DD’s reading age is at least 8. We didn’t actively teach her to read through phonics or anything, she just picked it up.

There are definitely gaps in her knowledge and understanding and she does need to cover this early curriculum in a systematic way. So that is good. I am just wondering though if the pace of learning and the learning focus on any given day will be boring or frustrating to her. Should she just reinforce or should she be stretched a bit? In your experience can the average primary school be trusted to handle learning well for pupils who are a bit ahead?

Thanks for any advice.

That's bonkers. My son is miles ahead of his class at reading; his teacher is letting him read many bands ahead of the rest of his class. He's also been taken off the class's maths curriculum to do more challenging maths (another girl in his class has too, with both maths and reading). It's not like your experience at all schools!

That's very fortunate. There are very few state options that do that and it's actively discouraged by OFSTED. That doesn't mean there's not teachers that ignore it and do what they think is right for their brightest students, but I can speak from experience that they'll probably be sticking their necks out to do it.

It sounds as though your daughter is good at sight reading and memorising words. This will be aided at school as she learns phonics and can then apply her new skills to longer words and starts to investigate prefixes and suffixes.

The reading curriculum progresses massively in the first three years of school and focuses on comprehension as well as decoding.

Yeh, it's private. Didn't realise that Ofsted discourage it; ISI don't!

ISI is an altogether more sensible organisation than ofsted.

i worked in a private school for years. Couldn’t believe how much has changed when my daughter started state primary (I’d been out of state schools for about 6 heard by then). Unfortunately can’t afford private. What previous posters describe is pretty standard in state schools unfortunately.

My DS is year 1. In maths he does the whole class work and then gets some extension questions, usually involving the same topic but explaining more. In reading, he is reading a few book bands ahead and it is agreed we can read other stuff too. He is not truly being stretched but he is happy and learning in other areas.

My older DD has spent years grumbling about the work (especially maths) being too easy. They have challenges level 1-4 and have added in 5 for her and a peer. A friend told me her school allow pupils to make a start on the written learning when they understand, which DD would prefer to sitting listening to lots of teacher examples on something she already gets. It has been easier to stretch her in other subjects, as she can write longer and more complex things.

I can only afford it because I work in the linked senior school and get a large staff discount... for which I am now more grateful than ever! ❤️

Hi,

I'm jumping on this thread. My daughter sounds similar. I remember before starting school I looked at the curriculum and thought she was more at year 2 level. She's now in year 2 at a state school, happy and enusastic about learning and loves every subject. Of course we all are biased thinking our children are super smart. I didn't teach her reading and writing and she picked it up pretty quickly. By the end of reception she was reading in her head and comprendibg and enjoying Mr men books. I was curious and did that test I think op did, at 5 DD was 10.5.

She does find school tiring and I'd like to know what extracurricular activities would be good. She does all her school work, but they don't set her extra, she enjoys doodling and I don't want her to think she's different or better.

Do you happen to know the name of the reading test that you (and the OP) tried? I'd be interested to see how my son fares. Thanks!

I think the Hertfordshire reading test I found online.

Beast Academy Online. Start from level 1.

"...bright kid who has pushed themselves and developed skills for self teaching is likely to know more than a general primary teacher. We've had several instances of being called in because our eldest has form for correcting teachers and is seen as being disrespectful in the way it's done (to be fair, academically she's right but her tone needs some work)."

This was the only subtley worded, but negative, comment about my year 3 DD on her otherwise glowing report this year. I did say she needed to decide if she "wanted to be right or to be liked" and she said "with this teacher she wanted to be right".

In our school , 🏫 children are assessed half termly and move phonics groups accordingly until they are ‘off’ phonics and in the comprehension/ reading groups
every child is in their appropriate group there is no ‘whole class’ phonics’ just ability groups

To update DD has now begun primary and I feel a bit despairing. I just don’t know what you are meant to do with a child who is academically so far ahead of their physical, emotional and social skills. It just doesn’t fit with school.

She's reception where it's largely play based. What is she doing and what does she want to be doing?

My DD's school tbf did have extension groups for table work like English/Maths, she was the only one doing it the first term and it was much nicer when other kids got added, even if they weren't quite at her level it's nice to work with peers ar that age

What does your DD want to do during freeplay ( which is what most of the time should be i think) My DD would largely (1) write stories to be read out at milk time (2) do sums for her teacher (3) do loads of art (4) play outside with her friends in the fresh air/chat about kpop demon hunters.

I know G&T girls can find the transition from school to uni/life can be tough as it's the first time they cant just achieve whatever they want, it's interesting to read some women's experiences on here so I do think not having the label of "needing to be pushed" can be helpful long term. I suppose if the school is quite rigid then it's not the right school, good schools support more able students to self study imo

What are you despairing about, OP? Your dd can only have been attending for a few days. Is she happy going in? Is she used to the routines yet? Has she started making friends?

At this stage, my oldest DD (v bright, already reading, on chapter books by Christmas, already at y2 maths) was still finding her feet in reception. The school hadn’t even done baseline assessments yet. I don’t think I’d had a chance to worry about anything beyond the school run.

My younger DD who is gifted but younger in the year group spent reception happily engaging in activities but refusing to go to the toilet. I spent the year despairing at her peeing herself slowly every day. There was also a marked difference in verbal skills between her and the rest of her class, her teachers flagged the difference as something to keep an eye on, but she happily made friends regardless - despite the faint whiff of ammonia.

It’s hard to imagine the progress at the start of reception, particularly when you have a kid who has seemingly already exceeded the academic milestones, and reception feels like a backwards step from nursery (it did for us anyway), but they learn so much vital, nuanced stuff by the end.

Is she happy OP?

Yeah, it's been what, a week?

I'd say the teachers didn't recognise DD was bright until Christmas. She did OK in the baseline tests but so many reception kids have been pushed by their parents to learn phonics and do sums etc. so the school don't particularly value them. Like I said above, the teachers just going to think she's been heavily hot housed by over zealous parents. Particularly if you complain this early.

Let her settle, let the teachers watch her at free play and give it a bit of time.

The good news is if you have a second bright kid, it's much easier second time round because they know you aren't full of crap.

As I said, reception is the best of all the infant classes. Year 1 and 2 is even worse.

If she's reading at home, then she's learning. DD started the piano in reception too and DS was playing online chess by Christmas. Stretch sideways and maintain your relationship with the school. Not pissing off the teachers is far more valuable so you are taken more seriously when you really need to articulate for DD.

I know you are all right. My reaction is too much, too soon. A lot of it is about me, probably. I was venting but I am going to try and bide my time, let things settle. It’s not the school, it’s just having a ‘spiky profile’ and struggling with seeing your child shoehorned into the system. I will probably get more used to it.

I don’t know if she is happy, she doesn’t seem particularly unhappy and she goes in with little or no protest. I can’t get out of her what they have been doing though they have been watching tv morning and afternoon, initially cocomelon but after some protests from parents other shows instead. She says she has not made any friends and hasn’t played with anyone. She isn’t drinking, she is one who needs prompting but I am working on that. So she isn’t going to the loo either and trying to rectify that dehydration in the evening hasn’t been easy.

She started asking me to read things to her that she has always read before, saying they had ‘too many words’ (these are things she has read many times). She seemed to be saying she doesn’t want the other children to know she can read well. I think she feels self conscious. The plan for the term is becoming secure in numbers 1-4.

I know that it’s about so much more than numbers and letters, and she does have to do the rest of it, she needs that. It just seems that now she is there so much she doesn’t have time to explore so much out of school, and in school there is effectively no English or maths learning for her. This doesn’t feel right at all time when her brain is so receptive and she is so curious.

Thank you all for your advice 🙏

DD is top 1% and was in a decent state primary: I would say her experience was positive overall, though she was sometimes bored, and rarely working at full capacity. Despite that, there is a lot of the main subjects (esp maths etc.) that they can’t easily learn at home, and there is usually more than enough in the primary curriculum to occupy a very bright child. There are lots of group skills they learn together, and usually something like music, a play, clubs etc. going on to add extra to the core school curriculum.

Teachers should normally have greater depth and extension tasks available for each lesson (though annoyingly the national curriculum changed a few years ago from requiring differentiation beyond the child’s current level, to only requiring differentiation within that level, eg. greater depth within the topic rather than extra content). However, DD’s school did often try to add extra content for a few children. She was lucky in that there were a number of other bright children there too, who whilst not quite always working at her level were close enough to provide a bit of group stretch and competition (especially in maths and science).

It often also depends on the individual teacher: DD would typically find that every year she would get put back on some reading level she was way above, and it would take a while before the teachers properly assessed where she was at.

School isn’t all about academic subjects, though. The social and emotional value of learning how to learn in school, plus how to navigate friendships, rules, and the social environment is invaluable, and even extremely bright kids can struggle a lot with those things and need to learn them along with their peer group.

If the child is very bright, there might be a certain degree of having to put up with being a bit frustrated in order not to miss out on the social and emotional benefits of being with their peer group — something that is a trade off that parents often don’t quite appreciate. I’ve met many children who have been accelerated academically, and they have a whole load of other, different frustrations and problems, some of them less easy to solve. My own opinion (also as a former gifted child myself!) is that sometimes being a bit intellectually frustrated in primary school, because you are too clever, is actually not that bad a problem to have as problems go. Primary school is also a place to feel comfortable, try things, have fun, have friends and belong to a school community, not just do school work.

DD got a scholarship to an academic private secondary, and I would say that their junior school doesn’t actually provide anything particularly beyond the level of the state primary curriculum — EXCEPT for languages, art and music, where there is normally much more provision than in a state primary. If you need to give your child extra stretch at home, language learning is a good way to go: a French conversation club for example, or an instrument. Your DD might find starting to learn piano or another instrument now may give her some of the extra stimulation she needs.

Thank you @Miriabelle that was an interesting read. I agree and my DD is in year 3 now and quite happy.

@Inyournewdress interesting you should mention the water thing. my DD has never drunk much, and when starting primary didn't during the school day, did in the evenings and started bed wetting which she never did as she was pretty much dry most nights in nappies at around 1 year old! Then potty trained at 20 months day and night together, and had only a handful of night accidents. It went away, but I didn't go to the GP as it's normal for 4 years to have bed wetting but this was after 2.5 years dry.

It's really not at all unusual for a bright pre-schooler with even semi-interested parents to have covered much of the reception (EYFS) and Y1 maths curricula before starting school. Your child will be far from the only one who has been confident in the numbers 1-4 since age 2 or whatever. Luckily Reception is about so much more than this and the curriculum ramps up pretty quickly by end of Y2 and into Y3.

@Inyournewdress hang on in there! It's such early days, and your DD has other priorities right now, like settling in, making friends, drinking/toileting and generally relaxing into the new environment.

Try not to ask her what she has done at school, other than some general chat along the lines of what she had for lunch and who she sat next to at carpet time. It's so easy to worry that they aren't learning enough, so perhaps it's best not to know too much!

I'm sure the teacher will soon notice how far ahead your DD is academically, but it will go down better if the teacher spots it for his/herself rather than you raising the subject. When my DD started school, I sat on my hands for a long (to me!) three weeks before the teacher asked to have 'a word' and opened up a discussion about how best to support my DD who was already a good reader.

We were lucky in that DD's Reception teacher was very experienced, and managed to stretch DD frequently but without making any great show of it. She also spotted that DD needed to work on her resilience, as she was so used to knowing what to do that she tended to back off when challenged with something new.

They all have so much to learn at this stage, even if for your DD it isn't the academic stuff. It will be ok.

Thanks @LetItGoToRuin
I think you’re right and that until she can manage to drink enough, use the loo and generally settle in with her classmates then those things need to be our focus. I hadn’t really thought they would be an issue since when she went part time to preschool they were not, but I think the class size just makes things so different. Thank you for your encouragement.