Anti social but very bright? Help!

[avenanap]

Hiya all.
ds's 8, he behaves very well at home, he's caring, helpful, loving and considerate when there's only me and him, I'm a single mum and he does not have any brothers and sisters so we are very close but I've been told that he's very anti social at school. He's uncaring, insensitive and rude. I've watched him talk to my friend and he rolls his eyes and grits his teeth as if she's worthless and he can't be bothered to talk. He does not seem to care how his words or actions affect people or what they think of him but when I talk to him about this he understands and tells me that he forgets to be nice or he doesn't realise what he's said. He was hit in the face by another child a couple of weeks ago, it's almost as if he wants to push and push until people can take no more. He doesn't have many friends, people don't invite him to parties or to play, the parents moan behind my back about him, he's skipped a year because he's so bright, the head is unhappy but parents have threatened to remove their children from the school if he is moved into his own age class. I always take him out and he's quite well behaved but can be rude. He's just started a sports class at the weekend to help him to discipline himself, he knows when people are upset so I don't think he has aspergers, he was fine at nursery, he had alot of problems settling in to school when he was in reception and became depressed. I've seen a psychologist who's told me that he's bored but I'm not sure what I can do to help him with his social skills. He's very highly gifted.
Any advice is gratefully recieved.

the fallen madonna - im not boasting(just a proud mummy) but the boy i was talking about my son is in the same sets and when i was saying how pleased i was the teacher said your ds1 is on a par if not higher than child x yet my son has worked on being socially accepted .....maybe its just the way aveanaps chid is hes not socially talented some people are like that ...one of my dearest friends has hardly any friends because she cant do with putting on a facade and social niceties.

I have no idea what he's been saying at school, he can be a bit silly to people when he's with me (happy birthday song is you look like a monkey, and you smell like one too), it's a bit immature but he's a kid. I'm not concerned about this, i've explained that he's a bit to old to be singing this to people now. I kind of think that the schools making a mountain out of a mole hill but I need to do something to help him whilst he's still there. I'm certain the next school can manage and support him because of the head's knowledge and expertise. I think he's bored and this is how he says he's bored and wants some attention. He does know how to behave...with me...everyone else has problems though. He's ok with my neighbour as he has established that she knows a bit more than he does and she takes no crap from him.

My ds also has had issues around friendships and playing with other children. And I have taught him strategies to deal with that.

I think it is all about strategies for making life easier. About managing behaviour. It will make his life at school easier, which has to be a good thing surely? But it sounds like the school aren't helping much. Nor the psychologist.

He see's through all the playground stuff, he can see how fickle children can be and he doesn't get it. He thinks they should play together regardless so he'll go and ask people to play, they tell him to go away and he can't take no for an answer as he see's this as an injustice. It's the same for the teachers, he wants everyone to be equal, adults are grown up children and you can't have children telling children off because that's not fair. I have spoken to him about the adult-child relationship. He's a perfect child when in the classroom (so say's his teacher), it's PE, playtime and when he's left to his own devices. I'm not justifying his behaviour, he looks at the behaviour of others and replicates it ten times as much unless he's kept busy. Bored or severe social problems? no idea!

I have done the same as TFM. And so must you.

So when he says 'it's unjust they won't play with me. I have a right to be played with. They told me they wouldn't play with me!'

you have to say 'look, it doesn't work like that.'

He's not seeing through anything. He is completely misunderstanding the situation, and not knowing how to behave accordingly. So you need to help him a bit.

I've already done this, i've sat and explained to him that it's ok if they don't want to play, sometimes it's ok to play with different people, it doesn't mean they are not his friend, just ask them another day. He gets this, no one actually tells me what it is he's been doing, they just complain that he's uncaring and rude but they don't give me examples or tell me what he's said or done. this is why I'm finding it so hard to help him. He gives me little snippets of info and I tackle the problems that way. The school just moan about him, I do ask them but all they say is that he's been rude or annoying. It's no bloody help! shouldn't it be down to them to intervene if they see he's having difficulty in the playground rather then to leave him to it? I'm not making excuses but I am not in a position to help him if I don't know what he's done. I'll get him that book and see if he regognises any of the things in the book.

No, they used to do this and he loved it but it lasted the whole of two lessons then the teacher left. He's now returned and is ds's class teacher. ds has always been a bit of a handful since he started, he no longer shouts out in class, he asks relevant questions but other then this I have seen no social progress whatsoever. ds has just started to not want me around when he's getting changed so I could play on the "cool" thing. He's had a massive telling off after school for looking down his nose at my neighbour. I don't think he'll do this again, I told him I was ashamed of how he behaved and I was disgusted. He went and appologised, partly because he was told off, partly because he felt bad. Then I made him phone my mum to see how she was, which he did and was quite nice to her.

They don't have the staff to take them out, it's a small school. The school he's moving to do this though, I'm just waiting until september. I've got to take him there for a day next week so I might have a chat and tell him how unhappy he is and ask if they can take him after easter. I've had enough.

Message withdrawn

He ladies.

Celia, he was in the school choir but was kicked off for messing around, he was laughing at a boy that was making fun of the teacher. Boy was not kicked off though, ds had been given a warning about his behaviour. He's joined a fencing club at the weekends, he's very good at it, he also plays chess after school. I could try the catherdral choir though, would give him something different to do. Thankyou for this suggestion.
Pruners, he's moving in September to a different school that's more understanding, they have him written down as very bright but needs help socially so they know what they are up against. I don't think they are helping things when they tell him off because they are not doing it the right way. It's not enough to tell him that he's being rude, they need to say what he's said and how it makes people feel. It works at home but they just don't listen.

Tahnkyou for all of the suggestions, I'm really grateful.

Some schools run social skills classes. They bring together a small group of children who, for whatever reason have had 'run-ins' with other children and teach them about how to act in particular situations. An unexpected benefit at ds1's school was that they found that some of the children who had previously been sworn enemies ended up being really good friends once they understood each other better. It's worth asking the new school whether they have anything like this and whether there would be a place for your ds.

That's a really good idea. The new school seem to be alot more understanding. I shall ask them. Thankyou

Like your son I was young at school; like your son I was very bright, terribly bored and for large stretches very unhappy. I am not proud of it, but I remember very clearly the feelings of desperate frustration and real hatred of the world for being so full of such incurably stupid people. As I say I am not proud of these feelings, and they were no fun for me either. I was horribly lonely and I thought I would always feel horribly lonely. I was quite a religious little girl even though my family weren't at all and actually this was helpful for me, because it gave me a framework in which trying to be kind and thoughtful and patient made sense as an achievement in its own right, and of course it was full of teachings about the value of each person - I know your son is interested in philosophy, maybe you can approach this issue in an intellectual way (ie one he might respond to) and try to address the ethical reasons why we should respect and value people even if they don't seem to have much to offer us personally.

Also, which is related though not quite the same, children who feel starved of stimulation as he probably does can be very intense and overwhelming with any child or adult who does seem to offer any real stimulation, and this too can seem rude or inappropriate. This is a different problem, but it might be contributing to the issue. I still take conscious pains to tone down being over-intense out of politeness; but I find it almost more relaxing than anything else to be with the one or two people I have met whom I feel are more intense than me!

If it's any comfort, I am actually socially very capable (my job for instance involves formal social occasions very regularly and I am pretty good at this), though you would never have guessed this if you'd met me at school. As soon as I was intellectually happy - unfortunately not till I moved school at 15 - I was completely transformed socially too. Before that, things that did help were meeting much older children or adults whose intelligence I did respect - I wanted to be like them and to be approved by them and that's an incentive to try harder socially. Before I moved school I had no real or lasting friends my own age, but I did have a circle of much older boys (then in their U6) whom I felt accepted by.

Basically I think the ed pscyh is right. If your son were less bored he'd be less difficult. The only tack that might work is to try and make being socially easier itself an intellectual 'challenge' for him.

Are you skiving today V? The head makes it into such a drama, "I'm seriously worried about his future... I pray for him..." I don't think I can manage until he moves, it's their attitude that's the problem. He understands the ethical side when he's at home, it's school that he has the problem with. It's like he's got a split personality, he takes the behaviour of other children and has to magnify them times 10! Head wants me to pack him off to a strict boarding school . I think he needs male role models but this is going a bit too far. I've found a school for him not too far from where we live, they all finish at 13 though so he can go on to Eton, they are all the same there (apparently). I've spoken to the headmaster's wife, she thinks he's bored. He's going for an assessment this week. I just have to find some way of managing him before whilst he's still at his old school.

Are you ok arionater?

avenanap - if you contact your local branch of the NAGC and take DS along to one of the Explorers meetings it would give you a chance to see if he behaves well in a stimulating non-school environment and co-operates/interacts well with the other children. You can attend three Explorers meetings before deciding if it was for you or if you wanted to join. Explorers meetings do several things - apart from a stimulating activity it gives gifted children a chance to interact with each other in a relaxed environment and discover that they can form friendships, and, just as importantly, that they are not the only very bright child on the block! It may be that if he made friends at Explorers he would be able to accept rejection sometimes in the playground. All children at Explorers are expected to behave reasonably - and, with very few exceptions, they quickly adapt.

The list of branches is here: www.nagcbritain.org.uk/about.php?id=28 and if you phone the Head Office they would give you the local contact number. You can also speak to them about your DS's problems and they might be able to help.

I think the boredom question needs to be addressed urgently, however, because I don't think his behaviour at school can be managed while he is so frustrated.

Thankyou flaming. I'm really grateful.