Gifted with maths at 4?

[goodatmaths]

Hello,

I was in a waiting room today and my child was doing a maths game. Someone told me they worked with children and asked me how old the child was. I told them that they were 4, they then told me the child seemed gifted. I have heard this from a nursery teacher and a few friends.

My child can sum, subtract, multiply and divide. They can do simple fractions like 1/2 and 1/4. Their vocabulary is vast. They have started to read but only simple words.

This child consumes vast amounts of information and is always asking to learn more. They ask Alexa for times table song, they finish everything I give them. The challenge for me is that they never stop. So I guess my question is.

1. Do they sound gifted?
2. What resources (magazines, pages, apps) can I give them access to that are fun and they can learn?

I want to foster their natural curiosity but do not want to feel crazy pressure to perform at such an early age.

I appreciate any guidance.

My son is 4 (starting reception in September) and quite good a maths. He loves a puzzle and logic. I wouldn't have classed him as G&T but just asked him what's half of 10,8,6 etc and double 2,4,5 etc and he could answer without needing to work it out. So he's grasped that without any teaching.

Your son sounds clever but I think it might take a while to learn if G&T.

Your DC has lots of interests that's great. If these are a firm preference you could look up 'hyperlexia' and see if it sounds familiar. Try things like Jigsaws, getting ones with more pieces, anything pattern based, chess & draughts games, card games, duo lingo, foreign alphabets.

I think what you are doing with your child is perfect, you are showing him how maths fits into our daily lives, that numbers are how we organise many things in our lives, that we can manipulate numbers, use them, change them, turn them into stories and records of how we live and explain the world around us. Later your child will also discover that numbers also have their own world, where properties, theories and ways of thinking exist purely because as ancient humans we devised a way to keep track of our belongings!

This is how children with a facility for number and who have the ability to see how numbers relate to each other , need to use them. I always despair of parents who think that to develop a child’s mathematical ability they have to sit them down to perform increasingly complex calculations and “get them right”. Curiosity is what drives mathematical thinking and understanding.

My 4yo does this, in fact I came to this board trying to see if this was "gifted". Last time I saw something about another 4yo who could do a lot more so thought it was more ordinary.
My 4yo (born end of Jan so not in reception till Sept) absolutely loves numberblocks, I think this is what sparked his interest! And the mathlink cubes- he recreates full episodes of it with great joy. He knows his times tables, adds and subtracts in his head, multiplies, divides and does fractions, knows odd/even, primes, sequences of squares and cubes, number bonds to 20 and lots other things he's learnt by looking over his siblings shoulders when they do mathletics for their homework. He is in nursery and is the only kid there doing this. They don't teach them much beyond recognising and writing numbers 1-10, he does it himself.

He seems to have a love of maths and numbers and I think he's got a talent for it. He will be starting reception in September and I am pretty sure he will find the curriculum very easy though showing what he knows in writing will be new.

His older brother was similarly gifted in maths at this age, and is autistic and it has lead me to wonder whether the hyper numeracy is a possible sign my 4yo is also neurodiverse (sometimes he seems to bring conversations back to numbers a lot, often out of context, but he's 4, they all say a lot of random things so I don't know if it's an ND trait) so far I haven't spotted the other signs that I did with my older son by this age. His fine motor skills are fine (in line with age, not terrible like my other son) and he has no sensory struggles (older son hyposensitive and sensory seeking) and uses more gestures and eye contact. Has a bestie in his class and is sociable. Time will tell though.

I think your son (and mine) would be considered to have a high aptitude for maths at this age.

I have noticed that the maths skills leveled out a bit, so the lead that my older boy had over his twin sister and peers has narrowed a lot as they've gotten older, what once stood out as streets ahead in nursery now looks more like being a bit ahead (both twins just got max scores in their y2 maths SATs) for example. He remains strong at maths and absolutely loves it, but it isn't genius.

Since they like maths, I let them have access to fun resources rather than trying to push them on through the curriculum, there are loads of nice fun maths games (dice games, board games, online games) and other things like chess, coding. But I actually spend more time trying to round out other areas, like getting my older one to stop doing everything mentally and show his workings or show alternative methods which he gets annoyed by! I know in early years sometimes an exceptional memory and good mental arithmetic might not necessarily translate into strength at problem solving or harder maths as they get older. We work more on fine motor or writing because that's where there's an asymmetry of skill. Maybe if my older son had the maths skills without the challenges he faces as part of being autistic I might have wanted to "develop" it, I don't know. My 4yo is the youngest of 4, and myself and my husband work full time so I haven't the time or inclination to try to take it further, I hope I am not doing him a disservice in this, just don't know how on earth I would fit it in.

I think at 4 whatever you do, keep the joy alive. They learn so much faster and so much more deeply through play and self discovery.

Of course they are gifted. Lots on here don’t like the use of this term, but your child is showing a gift for maths.

My child was also very (extraordinarily) good at maths (not that I’d have ever said so in real life either!).

At your kid’s age (4), I recall he was able to add big numbers, and could subtract into minus numbers. I don’t recall division or times. So I think this sounds very good of your child. I do remember he could do basic algebra (where x stood for an unknown number). He was also very curious about the natural world. No autism.

FWIW He got scholarships to the very top academic London independent boys’ schools at age 11. Note: teachers strongly acknowledged his maths skills and I knew he was really very very good, but I didn’t know just how all round “gifted”/academic he was (until the 11+).

My son is the same age as yours. Nursery say he's really good at maths, but your son is a lot better. I don't like the term 'gifted' but I would say your son has an exceptional aptitude for maths. My son is able to do addition and subtraction sums, can count up into the 100s, can recognise all numbers upto 100 (possibly beyond - haven't tried), can count up in 2s, 10s, 100s and 1000s (is this what is called skip counting?) and is very intetested in very large numbers (and 'infinity' although he doesn't fully understand the concept). Apparently this is above average for a pre-school child, so yours sounds very advanced. His HV is positive he's neurodiverse though, so we're getting him assessed for autism.

@surreygirl1987 awww, my son was really obsessed with infinity at that age too, you’ve just reminded me! Used to get quite “upset” about it (was otherwise v sunny/chilled). Ohh and obsessed with big numbers until at least year 6 (maybe he still is, but we no longer talk much about maths, since I no longer match him in any way, shape or form!) Good luck with your son!

You know OP, It’s hard to talk about “gifted”, maybe (as per surreygirl) “aptitude” is a better word, since it’s less loaded (gifted implies a standard, against which other people’s children are by definition “less than”).

Not sure what the official definition of the term gifted is - but I think having a keen interest in maths at such a young age is a gift in itself. Also, your DC is definitely doing advanced maths for his age.

All the best with your child. They are lucky to have parents who value education and are very invested in them :)

That is very impressive for a 4 year old! You must be so proud. I would avoid any labels and expectations from an early age though- the pressure it can put on a young child can be too much. Just keep fostering their learning and feed their curiosity. It sounds like you’re doing an excellent job. Keep teaching them to read- that way they can start to explore their own interests from a young age independently 😊

Here are some resources:

http://conceptionofthegood.co.uk/?p=569
Miquon Math
https://www.cimt.org.uk/projects/mepres/primary/
http://library.lol/main/19FB2ED803287527748BB96545267229
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_bRavc-qerkEyGo-gkM9uOrg-BoNeRDU

You can also look at past papers from contests like Math Kangaroo and the FMC and the PMC

My DD was similar at the same age. She's now 9.

If it helps, whilst she's still excellent at maths, in the top 2% nationally according to her standardised scores, she is also now as strong at other subjects. Her performance in English is better than her maths (she's off the chart) and that's allowed her to explore other interests.

School are giving her books on economics, philosophy and she is really into coding. Reading and comprehension has meant she can self motivate and drive her own learning.

She plays 3 instruments and is teaching herself Mandarin and French.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing but I'd not just focus on maths. Think about travel opportunities, languages, instruments and music theory. Competitive sports. All teach excellent soft skills.

The best thing you can do for a clever child or a gifted child is teach them how to fail. In mainstream education there will be very little of this for someone who is really bright. So I would suggest taking up something that is impossible to do well without a lot of hard work. Music, sports, dance, whatever floats your chilld's boat. It's very important to learn how to try hard.

My son was doing this. He’s 4 now about to start reception next year and is reading simple books and loves writing / sounding out words. He’s also fully potty trained, cleans himself reliably too, and can do things I never could at his age — eg button shirts, great balance, amazing handeye coordination, and he only has to see / hear / be shown something once and he understands it. He’s really empathic and sociable too far beyond his age

His teachers think these are all signs of him being gifted. I personally am not sure. I’m Indian and a lot of Indian kids I know were doing more at younger ages and were more socialised too. I suspect this might be a combination of clever + only kid (dsd was 15 when he was born) + a lot of quality time with me and DH. He also has adhd which means he has moments of time where he’s deep in concentration — he learns the most then.

I’m going to put him into arithmetic / english tutition next year to improve his memory because it helped me. So I’d suggest that. I’d also recommend practicising the things he learns in the real world — eg I get DS help me to cook or bake so he can learn about maths / proportions.

My ds used to be like your son - he loved all things maths and it turned out that the little tablet we had bought him had some maths games on that he used to love playing - and in the process taught himself long division and long multiplication as well as doing more complicated sums - I only found out when his y2 teacher complained that we had taught him the 'wrong' way of doing them as he hadn't been taught the interim steps the way they liked them to learn - only to have him complain that the school's way of doing it was much too complicated and doing it his way (what I would consider the normal way for doing these) was much easier.

He definitely had a great aptitude for maths that he still has (just done his GCSEs and is hoping to do maths based A Levels then head to Cambridge to study maths... He spent most of last summer working through his brother's A Level maths text books and a load of undergraduate maths lectures he found online - and days later he was able to explain the lectures to my husband (who understands maths more than I do these days) so he was taking it all in and understanding it.

however, he has dyslexia and dyspraxia which have caused him to struggle with writing and some other subjects - especially sports and languages. People with those two often have dyscalculia as well - which meant that when ds was at junior school they assumed he didn't have dyslexia because he was so good at maths while at senior school they used to try to offer advice about how to simplify maths for him assuming that he would automatically suffer from it - and they then struggled when he was so good at maths but struggling with dyslexia and dyspraxia... he didn't fall into a nice neat box which made it difficult to ensure he got the support he needed, both to push his English and his maths.

So carry on supporting him and ensure he has options that make maths fun - be it the Khan Academy or Prodigy app or any of the others that are out there once you start looking - but also make sure that his teachers support his less strong subjects too (ds used to do writing and spelling practice instead of maths practice in the mornings when arriving at junior school as most kids did as they could tell that it made more sense and was a much better use of his time).

And get him doing practical things with maths - cookery, serving out supper, measuring his room or the garden, working out points for whatever sport happens to be on tv (especially things like darts or snooker!), working out the number of different options in assorted scenarios and so on so that he develops a wide range of different ways of thinking about and solving maths problems.

In ten or 15 years time, your child may well still be hugely gifted at maths and love it or others might have caught up - it doesn't really matter, so long as he is enjoying it, being supported and getting support for a wide range of subjects and interests.

Only jumping on this thread as my son sounds exactly like yours - gifted in maths & obsessed with transformers! He’s only 4 and reception he’s amazed me with his knowledge
he goes through phases of interests that he becomes obsessive with is your son similar?