Define Gifted and talented

[seeker]

Just that really. No value judgments or sniping - just definitions. What does Gifted and Talented mean to you?
I'm not sure what it means to me, but at the moment, my thinking is -

To me, "gifted" means extremely academically able. I suppose something like being consistently 4 years ahead of the average for the child's age, and also, importantly, having an intellectual "spark". It would be possible to coach an averagely bright child to perform well above their age, but not to give them the spark which means true giftedness.

To me "talented" means being able to do something - like play the piano or do gym or swim or write poetry - significantly and measurably better than their peers. For example to play sport at County level or getting a Grade 6 in music at primary school.

What I want to know is how a child can be labelled 'gifted' when they can't speak, read or do sums. When I lived in the States I came across whole hosts of kids, some with learning disabilities like severe autism, others with difficulties like dyslexia, and you know what, all of them were 'gifted'.
How can one tell?
Never met anyone with an average child or a merely bright child.
If I claimed dd was gifted - severe CP, can't speak, no hand function - I would expect someone to question this.

I think in some situations reading early or similar stuff can be a clue to possible later good performance at school. I remember teaching my little brother the alphabet at 18 months old with a set of magnetic letters on the fridge (I was about 17). It took him half an hour to get the hang of which letters were which and he never forgot them. He didn't end up being particularly good at English, though, but he did end up doing Maths at Oxford and doing really well. So the fact that he could do something unusually well for such a small child was a clue that he might be quite clever. Obviously I don't think you can be gifted and talented in letter recognition as such, as it's something you'd hope that most kids will get the hang of at some point early in life!

NMC, on one definition of gifted, it's being exceptional in maybe just one area of the curriculum, and having a particular flair. It is perfectly reasonable for some people with learning difficulties to be exceptional, eg those with certain autistic spectrum difficulties being geniuses at mathematics.

We've chatted in our department at school (I am a science teacher in a very small school) about G&T vs 'more able'. The standard definition seems to be that 'more able' applies across the curriculum, whereas gifted might be in just one subject. We have decided to identify any 'gifted' pupil in science as being very solidly able across the curriculum (particularly English and Mathematics), the something special on top in Science. A 'more able' pupil will be a better achiever across the board, but not quite as exceptional in Science. The kind of work we would do with 'more able' is quite differnt to what we would do with gifted.

We found that when we lived in the US, that they would use the gifted label as applying to 'more able' as we have it in the UK. Basically, anyone who has a higher IQ will be classified as gifted. That would pretty much be a 'more able' descriptor here.

MB, your brisk "not what they answer, but what they ask" is so perfect.

However: would you agree that those who have the kind of minds who "ask", like that, are generally needier? - in terms of accommodating themselves to what's expected in schools, what the norms are, getting to grips with the task at hand, and so on? And that those who "answer" are likelier to have an easier, & more stable, & possibly more successful, ride (through school and life) than those who "ask"?

Bink, I agree with you. These children tend to analyse everything, and have a profound need to understand the purpose behind all of the school routines. I think this leads to a highly sensitive child who is more needy than the more easy going members of the classroom.

yes quattro i truly agree
my children are not gifted - they are spawn of me so yes- bloody bright but gifted no !

I know a severely autisic child who can draw incredibly accurately. His drawings are like photographs, yet he is only twelve. He has very little speech and is severely disabled by his autism.

Is this little boy gifted, or cursed?

Actually - what Lucicle says has struck a chord with me. Why are we looking for a "gift"? Why can't we say they are clever and have done? We are dressing it up in jargon and using all the right government words.

In my opinion, Mozart was gifted - he was truly brilliant and at an early age too. Einstein may also have been "gifted" with an ability to "think outside the box". However, I would say that my dd2 is clever: clever with words and clever with numbers - I seriously hesitate to say she is gifted as I don't think that is an appropriate word.

Being able to read (to me at least) doesn't make a child gifted - it just means that s/he has cracked a code. Some children do it early and others catch up later on - but most manage it. Sometimes it may be based on experience too - if there are no books in the house they are unlikely to be early readers. It is a process of development and also environment. If a child reads a word and their mum celebrates, they will want more positive reinforcement and will do it again.

I agree with what has been said about plateau-ing. When we were little, I was the "gifted" child of the family, precocious, early reader, always asking interesting questions and wanting to discuss things, learning foreign languages at a very early age etc. My brother was more ordinary. He overtook me sometime in our teens, and and as adults, though we are both academics, I'd say he's by far the more gifted and creative (not to mention successful). A good reason for not wanting my own children labelled. Anyway, my dd decided for herself that the school G&T club would be a waste of a lunch hour that she could put to better uses. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if little brother (currently in the lower sets) catches up with her in secondary school.

Re needy

Just saw that post.

Bright children IME are not 'needy' they are 'hungry'

SEN children have needs. Bright kids have a voracious appetite to know and understand stuff

I have a few that I have agreed a working relationship with. I answer their questions to a point, when the rest of the class gets restive, I give the 'hungry' one a question to chew over and say 'End of lesson'

They know that at the end of lesson I will answer their question. They grow to trust me, and this works well.

They also have to learn, like all children, that they have to wait their turn and that sometimes other people's needs may count too!

That is an issue with not just G+T kids but those who are more able
The schools are under resourced for extending kids who are ready for it.

You would hope that G+T in schools would work its way down through the classes and raise the achievement levels
But no such luck.

I have ds1 most definitely gifted under any description discussed here and in a number of subjects.
I also have one very able 5 yr old dd, who also has visual problems.
The school have her on the G+T list, however there is a vast difference to how her older brother was at her age - even though she learned to read at the same age.

dd2 is hard work because of her insatiable appetite and hunger to learn

i agree with mb that it is a hunger not a need

she can be told to be quiet and that no I am not going to set her another 40 sums to do she can tidy her room first - this isn't going to do her any long term damage

dd2 is not gifted just has a fab memory and a desier to know stuff also a competitive streak god help me