Is my ds (5yo) G&T in Maths ? Opinions please

[selfevidentnamechange]

Knowing how these threads kick off, I am hiding behind a new name.

ds is 5 and in year 1. He was 5 at the end of July.

At the last Parent Teacher evening it was suggested that as parents we start to teach ds his times tables. Starting with 2 then 10 then 5. Teacher said that the aim is for all children to know these by the end of year 2. She did say that some children will know more tables by then.

So, for the last 3 weeks we have spent 5 minutes of our walk to school each day doing tables. 3 or 4 times a week he spends 20 minutes on diferent internet programs testing his tables. He is really enjoying this and chooses to do this himself.

So far he has learnt 2,3,4,5,9,10 and 11

I am very proud of him, he is very proud of himself.

As an only child, I have no idea whether this is "normal" or "unusual".

Opinions please.

I would hope the teacher does already know soupdragon! I think as parents though we can be so bothered about other peoples opinions and labels our children may get that it can be nice if the teacher actually tells us rather than us just 'deciding', I never really mentioned to anyone how well I thought my daughter read, or her spelling (although she spells everything out which can become rather tedious so everyone knows anyway!) until the teacher actually said she was very able in that area, even now I still say she is good at it, but then say she isn't good at handwriting to make it look like I'm not showing off!!!

Thanks piffle for the explaination - quantities are no problem for him - I thought you meant stuff like how many thousand are there in a million.

Hi Bink (it's me from the dreamers and lawyers threads) - can you suggest any games - I'm trying to keep my head down at school at the mo - just been made parent gov so am rather afraid any discussion (if not strictly necessary) may cause more waves than would be ideal.

Clueless - I think it is just the 2,5 and 10 times tables that are promoted for learning by the end of yr 2. Re the G&T thing - I really do not want to be the one to suggest that he maybe G&T - I really think that this should come from the teacher if appropriate. I did however start this thread for a greater understanding of what G&T means in the context of maths.

Soupy - I agree re holding off saying anything if and until it is a problem for ds

I always knew DSs had mathematical brains. I think DS1 (8) is probably "just" very good at maths and DS2 may turn out to be gifted. I was surprised at his parent consultation when his teacher said that not only did he grasps new stuff quickly but he could explain it to his peers better than she could. However, he doesn't know any tables

I had a leafelt abuot things to do, hang on...

roll a dice and see how quickly you can say which number makes it add up to 10 (reinforces these number bonds)

Make a set of 12 cards showing the numbers 0-10 but with 2 5s. Shuffle and time how quickly you can pair them in 10s (number bonds again)

Something for your walk to school - looking out for, say "thirties" and seeing how many you can spot, which is the biggest you've found.

Weighing stuff - find something that weighs about 1kg, exactly 1kg etc etc.

Empty out your purse and let the child count the loose change.

Games like snakes and ladders, rolling 2 dice and adding the numbers together. Extend this by having to add the dice numbers to the number of the square you'r on and say where you think you'll end up.

my 5 yr old dd can do those tables

DSs play with coins in class, working out how many ways you can make a certain amount using the different coins.

Soupy thanks for the ideas - I really like the two dice idea and the cards - bridging 10 number bonds would be better for ds than just bonding to 10. Could you explain the "thirties" game again - I didn't understand this one.

I think it's just spotting numbers! See how many number in, say, the thirties you can see on buses, doors, cars etc. Count how many, remember which is the biggest, which you have the most of. I think it reinforces number recognition and the ideas of size and quantity.

another was "guess my shape". You think of a shape and your DS has to guess what it is by asking yes/no questions (does it have 3 sides, are they straight etc)

Hello then AnonymousPerson!
In truth I am a bit lazy with finding maths games for my ds to play, so can't suggest any - I spend all my effort on his difficulties, not his abilities, which I leave to look after themselves. Possibly not right priorities ...? Anyway.

Do you have Kjartan Poskitt's Murderous Maths books? Lovely lively mise-en-scene of maths concepts within real life - main audience is perhaps 9yos who are bored/can't get the hang of it, but if ds is a good reader too I think even at 5 he will probably love them. (My ds has spent the weekend re-inventing computer keyboards based on the relative frequencies of letters in English, as cribbed out of the "Codes" volume of Murderous Maths.)

There is a Murderous Maths website too which DD1 has been using (she is 10 though) but there may be appropriate stuff on that for him to enjoy.

That's the second mention of Kjartan Poskitt bink, will look into this
Glad you are finding the thread helpful anonymousperson agree with everyone else that, G & T or not, facility with times tables is at the core of being easy with mental arithmetic and a Very Helpful Skill

Thanks all - shall go and look for murderous maths on Amazon

I was only anonymous because I thought this thread would go the way of the other "is my child G&T" threads - I have been very relieved and thankful that it hasn't

"he does understand the concepts of fractions and negative numbers" I think these are more likely indicators of a mathematical brain than the tables to be honest. Ds at 5 was highly curious about these sorts of concept and would ask lots of mathematical questions until he really understood them. As I recall he didn't learn his tables much, if any, earlier than anyone else (though he could get there given time as he 'knew' what multiplication was about). He has gone on to be a mathematical child (in a top few hundred in the country kind of way).

and yes do get some murderous maths books - my ds loved those too.

Having taught Year R and Year 1, I would say he is definitely above average. If he has taught himself then his love of learning will shine through and be of great use as he gets older.
He might enjoy www.rainforestmaths.com , it is a free site.He sounds like a very bright little boy and I would imagine that he'd get picked up and placed on the GnT register, what the school does with that list...well, who knows, it depends on each school.

A murderous maths book has been ordered. I will try rainforest maths thanks - another day - Lego Star Wars PS2 is the order of the day here today - playdate with experienced PS2er - ds is in heaven.

Oh good - I think he'll enjoy it! On the gifted question, it's all a matter of terminology. If you mean G&T by the government definition then quite likely I'd think. If you mean Ruth Lawrence type gifted then probably not! One of Ds's teachers once described him as 'borderline gifted' which is the only mention of the G-word we've ever had (his school is private and doesn't seem to worry about such things). What I'm trying to say is the label itself is often irrelevent - unless the school will actually do something special for him if he has the label it's probably not worth worrying about.

Not sure if anyone here has lived in places like Hong Kong and Singapore. If they have then they might already know that most children by age of 7 are expected to know their timetables. My niece goes to an international school in HK and she has learnt her 2 to 12 timetables but she is only considered average because the gifted children can do vertical multiplication. Children are given hw everyday and there?s a lot of pressure placed on very young children to do well in school.

I am quite glad that my dd goes to school in the UK, I wouldn?t want her to face so much pressure at such a young age.

I have a mindee 2.5 who knows his 2,3,5 and 10 he loves anything to do with numbers and the other day counted backwards from a hundred !

I don't think there's any harm in mentioning it to the teachers, surely? I imagine they have some idea if they are mentioning times tables to you .

ds is good at maths it appears and the teachers are fabulous at coming up with things for him to do. The sort of stuff they suggested (that they do with him at class)

-rather than writing sums for him, they say to him 'your target number is 256' how many ways can you find of getting to that number (rather than a worksheet with lots of sums) (this has also stopped him pestering us to come up with sums for him to work out!)

-can you make up some patterns and see if we can guess the next number in the sequence

-what sort of change will I get from £20 if I buy this etc. and then £50, £100 and so on

so getting him to do the thinking

And teach him card games and things like checkers and starter chess. Ds plays a mean blackjack hand and things like gin rummy/patience.