Should I contact DD’s primary school to explain she’s bright before she starts in September?

[OutnumberedDad]

I had a lot of excellent feedback from this forum two years ago regarding my dd (thread linked at the bottom) and I’m dipping back in for more advice please.

DD4 starts school in September and my wife and I are confused if we should contact her primary school in advance to explain that she’s quite able, particularly at maths?

DD is the bright “hears it, gets it and remembers it” sort of child. She has good literacy skills and can read basic books but she prefers being read to. She will definitely benefit from working through properly taught phonics so even though she’ll be a little bit ahead I’m not sure I’d even mention this.

However, in maths, she really shown a very good mathematical brain. Inspired by Numberblocks (watching it with DD2 reignited her interest) and spending more time with us in lockdown, she’s really immersed herself into the world of numbers.

She loves watching videos on YouTube to learn and she knows her times tables up to 12 x 12. Although some of that is rote, she can add double digit and single digit numbers applying the patterns she’s spotted in the times tables and without the need to count on. She loves to use maths to compare all of our ages, working out how old family members will be when she is x years old etc.
She can also double and half effectively by breaking the numbers in to parts (eg 23 + 23 = 20 + 20 and 3 + 3) and she has grasped things like division and remainders and working out 97 + 7 = 104 or 997 + 7 = 1004 so her understand of place value is quite good without being “taught” (we have tried to answer her questions by explaining things a little bit but nothing formal or curriculum based)

All of this is gladly very normal in this setting which I am very grateful for and you will also know that I’m not bragging when I say these things.

Essentially, for the most part, a lot of the first couple of years of dd’s maths aren’t going to be very useful. DD is happy and fairly confident but not showy so she may blend in to her surroundings and quietly get on with work that she has already mastered. She will absolutely benefit from the routine setting of reception. I just don’t want her to get stifled in maths and feel maybe I should give her teacher a subtle heads up if possible.

Ordinarily, I think I would mention this to her teacher in the home visit, but there are a few issues:

We may not have a home visit or a normal transition for dd due to COVID-19
Schools have a lot of pressing priorities at the minute which I am mindful of
I am a secondary maths teacher and I really don’t want to be that pushy parent from Day 1!!
A teacher doesn’t always appreciate being told how to do their job before it’s even started.

What do you all think that I should do?

Many thanks and apologies if there are any typos!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/gifted_and_talented/3182253-Another-gifted-at-2-y-o-thread-You-bet

Another vote for don't! She sounds like a very bright little girl but don't mark yourself out as being 'that parent'. The time to discuss it is further down the line if you feel they are not meeting her needs.

They will make their own assessments. Also please remember that kids learn at different rates so just because she got certain concepts young doesn't mean others won't catch up quite quickly. Let your dd settle into school (this is not easy for all) and during the first year the teachers will be doing baseline tests on all the kids anyway

Honestly I'm your shoes I'd look at private if you can afford it. IME they are much better at stretching gifted children and more flexible with moving children into year groups based on ability rather than age.

*in your shoes

I hate the phase "that parent".

As an ex teacher I would have wanted to know this. I would not think you were ‘that parent’. Your daughters maths skills sound advanced and it would be helpful to me to have an insight before she started.

I’d disagree that a state primary won’t be able to support a very able child. A decent teacher should absolutely be able to.

My nephew is a total maths genius. He’s 12yo now but has his maths lessons with the sixth formers and won some national maths competition for secondary school kids last year. He can beat his teacher in any maths test.

Both his primary and secondary school were very supportive and set him totally different work in maths right from reception. They knew he had to be kept interested by being stretched.

I disagree that the child ‘needs’ a private school. Most good primary schools will have no problem received recognising and dealing with gifted and talented child. My child gets desperate work from some of the others to keep him interested and engaged. Remember too that at that age it isn’t just about ‘hot housing’. Play is extremely important.

Wow, what an incredible amount of responses - thank you.

This thread definitely shows a clear difference of opinion with valid points for both sides. I think what we’ll do is see what sort of transition dd has and if explicitly asked about her understanding then we’ll mention it but otherwise we’ll hold back.

I think the school’s main purpose for the first term or two will be encouraging children to reintegrate with one another and return to some form of normality. I think waiting until the first parents evening makes a lot of sense...but whether or not I am able to stick to that remains to be seen!! I’ll post an update here whatever happens!

I think schools do vary on this one. What worried me was that all the people I knew who actively discouraged their children from learning to read before starting school were primary teachers - suggesting that they really didn't think it was a good idea.

However my daughter's school were absolutely fine - I mentioned that she was already reading well, and within a week or two the teacher said to me that she'd had her reading to her, and had she started on chapter books (which very accurately pinpointed where she was at). Her maths wasn't sticking out so much at that stage (she'd sort of put it on hold because she was enjoying the reading so much), so I didn't mention that.

When it comes to being "that parent", I think it's avoidable. I remember saying to my daughter's teacher that I knew her writing was way behind her reading, but I really wasn't worried because she was only 4. Her teacher said "oh I am glad to hear you say that" - I think because she was relieved that my expectations were not unreasonable, and I wasn't a "pushy" parent.

Usually you would get a home visit with a teacher before they started. You might get a call instead due to covid. you can probably mention it then

lanthanum I’m a primary school teacher. I didn’t teach my older DS to read before starting as he very clearly wasn’t ready, it would have been pointless and frustrating for us both.

My younger DS however is very much ready at 3 and I’ve started teaching him. He loves it and is making quick progress.

All children are different. I am sure mine will both end up as fluent readers who enjoy it, as they come from a family of readers.

Please don't, I beg you...

Why would you need to mention it? If she's that bright they will notice. Calm down. I know you're a proud parent but you're likely to come across as a bit of a knob.

I think it depends on the child.

My DS could read properly when he started school. He was 5 and a bit (Scotland) and he came home furious after the first few days. He got angrier and angrier as 'school' books were picture only and he was reading most things.

I am an English teacher and went in which was like a red rag to the Head teacher. He did not like it. DS was treated pretty badly as a result but he felt we had tried and we moved a year later. He had been called a 'smarty pants' (he was 5) and laughed at for not liking a puppet show.

His class had 10 pupils aged 4-8 so all work should have been differentiated as a matter of course (tiny school). The Head taught the class so there was nowhere to go but away.

So, it was the right thing to do as he relaxed at school and at home as we had his back.

The head who made his life so difficult (at 5) lost pupils to a neighbouring one. DD was only there a few months before we moved but had a lovely time. She was a much less confident reader but also didn't get angry when she was bored as she loved all the social and play side of school.

DS is 20 now and still like that. He has some ASD traits but still remembers that Mum tried!

So, only if it will benefit your child. Not so much academically but in terms of helping them settle and feel 'seen' by the teacher.

And I am a teacher and love it when parents tell me things that help me get to know a pupil quickly. Information is always helpful.

I am a parent who had 'that child'. The teachers had picked it up at our first parents meeting. However, every year after that at primary school each teacher would start the year with 'I'll make my own assessment'. Same when he started secondary although by the end of Y 7 the Head of Maths had noticed.
However ds was (and still is) very good at just occupying himself. In Y9 they just let him get on with his own thing and stopped worrying about teaching him Maths.
I think it would be wise to wait and see what the school picks up. You might have many years of this ahead. Help your DD become a self sufficient learner and teach her to work accurately and still complete the work in class. DS has taught himself some rather novel ways of doing things which he has had to put aside for normal exams but did stand him in good stead for Maths Olympiads and Oxford admissions test.

@Nackajory

Why would you need to mention it? If she's that bright they will notice. Calm down. I know you're a proud parent but you're likely to come across as a bit of a knob.

I try to avoid replying to posts like this but you’re so far off the mark I just have to.

Of course I am a proud parent but that is irrelevant. A parent informing a teacher that their child is quite advanced at maths is not because “they are proud” in exactly the same the way that a parent informing a teacher that their child is unable to speak would not be due to a “lack of pride”. It is purely a parent giving some information to assist the teacher and try to get the best provision for their child.

As discussed in here though - I think I will let the school make their own assessments unless we are specifically asked and we can see how she’s getting on at her first Parent’s Evening. Can’t quite believe she’ll be going to school in September!!

Don’t expect too much from primary school then you won’t be disappointed. I have heard a lot of challenging the able ones, mastery, greater depth etc. All buzz words that means very little in practice. They benefit the merely bright ones but not the exceptional kids.

Just one example for you. Before Christmas, I was unfortunate enough having to sit through a talk by a primary Maths lead or whatever the title was, training KS1 teachers. She openly admitted that she didn’t get fractions. I had nothing to say for the rest of the afternoon.

A lot of maths at primary school is problem based. It's not all about 3x3. They don't have lists of calculations on a piece of paper. It's very different. Even if your daughter knows her times tables, she will have to adapt to the way maths is approached at school.

And yes, I do remember 'that parent' who said in front of everyone at the first parents' meeting that her daughter could already write her name in reception (most pupils could) and she couldn't understand why her DD wasn't on the 'gifted and talented' program at school (there wasn't one). Her daughter's name was Eve. We are still laughing about it and my son is 14. So sometimes it's just simpler to approach it in a casual way, talk about your DDs interests, how she learns, is she shy/extrovert, struggles to take turn or very gentle, etc.

Another vote for not telling the teacher.

Prior to DD starting YR, her head of preschool contacted the teacher without our knowledge (!) to talk about our DD, and it didn't go well, so we said nothing and waited. After 3 weeks, the teacher called us in for a meeting to discuss how they could meet DD's needs, and it's been pretty good since, on the whole (DD is now in Y4).

Unless your DD is exceptionally shy and won't show her abilities by herself, try to sit on your words until parents' evening. I'm sure all will be well.

Im a secondary Maths teacher with two children who appear to have an enjoyment of numbers.

They are currently in nursery and reception.

Over the past 4 months I have seen what they are doing in Maths - there is a lot more breadth to it than just the number work you mention.

My eldest has asked to do various things - like learn certain times tables. I have done so with her in a fun way - using age appropriate activities. My youngest is copying eldest so has all sorts of skills I wouldn't expect but copies eldest. They talk a lot about numbers.

Build a rapport with the teacher, work with them rather than go in expecting them to fail her.

I’m not sure they do all ‘notice’ to be honest. We’ve had quite mixed experiences with our children, one who had quite a limiting dyslexic trait that was completely overlooked, and the other who was gifted at maths, yet was never acknowledged until we took her out of state school and had an Ed psych report done to confirm our ‘suspicions’.
At the time of starting school, I also pondered giving a heads up starting reception, but decided to wait and see how she had settled in. Late summer born, with a very limited speech due to hearing issues...so she never really got noticed at all. I’m not sure what to suggest in your case OP, other than to say you should trust your instincts.

Don’t. Just seems a bit cringe, they’ll figure it out

@AnnaSW1

There's no need. I'm sure the teacher will notice

No problem aunty karen