school not addressing DS's ability at maths

[shoebedobedobedobedoo]

Not sure this is the right spot for this, but I'm sure someone will advise me if it isn't. Apologies for the length.
DS is in yr 2 and has just started at a new school. At his previous school he were told he was ‘exceptionally bright’ and they put him on an accelerated reading programme but never addressed his maths. I personally don’t think his reading is anything special (he has a wide vocabulary, but he doesn’t enjoy reading, and there is nothing exceptional about his reading when compared to DC1). His maths however is a different story.He knows all his tables to 12 and division of. He can add 3 digit numbers in his head and he understands simple fractions. He can multiply whole thousands in his head. He understands maths concepts easily. He loves maths.I think his level is about year 4 (but happy to be corrected). In week 1 at his new school (we relocated, he hasnt moved schools because of any school related problems) I spoke to his new teacher, told him about his maths and how we felt his previous school didn’t stretch or challenge him, said we didn’t want the same experience.

First week of homework; Q1 count the chickens. There were 4. Q2 count the sheep. There were 6. Q3 fill in the missing numbers on a number line 1-10. Q4Write ‘one more than/one less than for 2 digit numbers’.

I emailed the teacher and told him that this was neither challenging nor ability appropriate. Got an email back saying that DS struggles with problem solving and they aren’t going to do anything extra with his fluency until his problem solving is better. Whilst I would agree that his ‘problem solving’ isn’t on the same level as his mental maths (I did in fact also tell him this in the first week)I think this is more a delivery thing. For example, ask him '20 divided by 5' and he will answer immediately. Give him a page of questions, like ‘divide 20 sweets into 5 bags, how many sweets in each bag’ and he switches off. He doesn’t like the reading aspect and he thinks the questions are silly. I do understand that he does need this skill also, and I do try to do this with him at home.

Today they were adding 1digit numbers to 2 digit numbers (30+6, 70+5). Again, this is not challenging for him.

The school prides itself on treating children as individuals; its a private school. I just don’t understand why they seem completely unwilling to support and encourage his maths fluency. And I don’t know what to do.

We thought of having a meeting with the teacher to express our concern again, although fully expect that this will get us no-where, but think this is probably our next step.

Should we get him formally assessed and present this to the school in a ‘you aren’t meeting his needs’ kind of way?

If we were to explore an assessment, who does this? Is it an educational psychologist? Or do we just get an informal tutor report?

I don’t want to end up being ‘that parent’ , but can see that this is where we are heading regardless.

Where do I go with this?

I think rededucator explains it very well - the challenge of the word problems is being able to work out what method will obtain the solution, not just being able to quickly divide x by y or whatever it is, but understanding that division is the process required.

I am not strong at maths and find sorting out the wording of a problem difficult in that way. I think the school are right to insist that he gets to grips with it. A lot of the GCSE papers I've seen contain nothing but these "scenarios" for pupils to solve, so if your DS continues to resist them, he'll struggle later on.

A calculator can answer 20|5, it's working out that 20/5 is the calculation to be done is the life skill.

I think that's exactly right. I'm always amazed at how many people come to me in work for help with basic maths. They all have calculators, so it isn't the calculations themselves that are the problem. Rather, they simply can't work out what calculations are needed to resolve the question that they're dealing with. Most practical applications of maths are applied, so people need to understand it at this level.

Unfortunately he needs to do problem solving. He isn’t at year 4 if he can’t do the reading and solving. Algebra is taught in year 3 now. Basic problem solving in year 1.

My son like to do the math questions in Primary Grade Challenge Math by Edward Zaccaro. They are word problems however the author is American so not metic but ds likes to convert between the two.

If your son can say 15 divided by 5 is 3

But cant work out 15 sweets 5 bags how many in each bag

Then I would say he doesn't understand division?. He's just learnt it parrot fashion

I used to get actual jelly babies and containers and do maths this way.. More real

I totally get where he is coming from with the wordy maths problems. As a child, maths was fun, except when there was a lot of English to plough through first to get to some usually trivial problem.

Maths involves practice. The more he practises, the better he will get at it. It needs to be at his level though.

I do not think it is the case that professionals always know best. They are constrained by having to teach a class and do not have the resources for individual teaching of outliers.

I used to teach dd maths at home as school did not teach her at the level she was at. Their answer was just to claim she was not at that level. I did try asking them in Y4 to let her sit a Y6 test at school. Their reply was levels were only done on class assessments by the teacher. Dd just stopped seeing primary school as somewhere she learnt maths.

You could try talking to the school, but I suspect it will be a case of finding resources for you ds to do at home if you want him to move forward in maths.

Be prepared to do more at home to challenge. I say that as the DM of a DC who has known all the tables since reception and has just started Y4 with learning the tables again. Still early I know and we are hopeful as the teacher this year has a great reputation. This is a child who last year was confident with Y8/9 maths and was capable of solving simultaneous equations and drawing functions. For word problems have you thought of the primary maths challenge past papers - the later questions are reasonably wordy and definitely are about applying what you know. My DC is at a prep as well and it’s not a guarantee that an ability will always be catered for.

Not sure if this is helpful but: my son is also in Year 2. He is definitely not advanced in maths (or any area actually). I'd say he is average but maybe even slightly below average I don't know. I have a strong maths background myself and a degree in Engineering and I am really happy with his maths skills. He fully understands the areas he is working through - if you ask him a times table fact (and he only knows 2. 10. 5 and 4 times tables at this point) he won't be able to give you an instant answer but wait a minute and he will work it out - that's more valuable imo and I encourage him to keep broadening his understanding rather than moving onto harder and harder stuff. He can't add 3 digit numbers in his head - but give him a pen and paper and he knows how to work it out (might make a mistake but that's why we practice). He has no concept of division yet, it hasn't been introduced. But he could answer your sweeties problem whether verbal or written because he has a deep understanding of what times tables are, what they are for and what they mean. As an engineer I consider that to be WAY more important.

You've had a lot of answers already but as a parent and a teacher assistant, I can honestly say that what children can do at home isn't always reflected in what they can achieve at school, especially in primary school. There are another I presume 29 kids in the class, the teacher has to teach all of them, your DS isn't getting 1-2-1 attention as he would do at home. There are a lot of distractions. The questions are asked differently from what you are doing with him at home. There's a lot of 'problem solving' as opposed to just number+number=. The problems can be very wordy. School will focus on understanding of maths concepts not just on lists of numbers.

For what it's worth, DS2 is 'G&T' in maths and his ability wasn't really identified before y3, and even more marked in y6, and now he is in y8 and he is well ahead of curriculum for his year. I think they need to mature into maths a bit (but I am sure that many G&T children are identified at day 1, I'm just saying not all of them).

Op - I tutor kids for the 11+ and I often get kids in who are amazing at mental maths, and all the maths foundation skills (eg can do long division on paper) but as soon as they are presented with a problem with the maths in context, they struggle.

It is that they can't work out from a written context what maths they have to do, especially if it is 2 step maths.

While I think the teacher is being a bit pedantic to insist on the 1+2 worksheet, she is not being pedantic on talking about the importance of applied maths.

So I would go and talk to her and start from the basis of - what do I need to do to help him apply the maths facts he knows, rather than he is a maths genious.

You have had really good advice so I'm not going to add much except that as a parent of a 17 year old applying to do Maths at Oxford, I can only reinforce how important problem solving is in Maths - learning the formua's, equations and graphs is all very well but most of Olympiad Maths and University entrance maths is all about problem solving. Ds is prepping for an (hopefully) interview and (again hopefully) Olympiad and he is trying to practice how to talk through the sort of problems they expect them to solve in an interview (so things like, 'imagine a ladder against a wall at an angle of x degrees.....) or in an Olympiad paper. So support him to develop those skills now.

DD can read Harry Potter books. She is 6.

She doesn't understand half the words and can't spell the words do is still given the same books as her peers as it's no use her being able to read the words of her comprehension isn't up to the same level.

Sounds like what's wrong with your son but with numbers so he'll still have to learn the bits he's missing and jumping forward making him even better at the bits he is good at is not going to be advantageous.

Perhaps as pp have mentioned, he doesn’t see the point in a problem that is v easy mathematically. Perhaps bigger numbers may interest him more in the application aspect. Try and do stuff at home like sharing out his fave snack and give him an unfairly small portion. See if he notices and can tell u why. Cooking cupcakes doubling/halving stuff might also grab his attention. See where his interests are and make up story sums based on this. I like this series:

Maths Plus Word Problems 3: Pupil Book www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0435208640/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_MXoLDbBAVG82H?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I was like your DS and found maths easy when it wasnt 'wordy', as soon as it was too descriptive i would lose what they were asking of me. I did OK at GCSE maths, however the wordy questions were my downfall, unfortunately they are annoying but the sooner he it the better and he can move on to the harder maths

I have a DS in yr2 and is very bright like yours. He does simple maths like everyone else but when he competes the tasks his teacher gives him extension questions to stretch him a bit. DS however finds all the stretchy questions easy but I don't find that a problem that much.

We have a blackboard at home and use it often to work on complex stuff. With maths we try to come up with factors of large numbers, sums using fractions, algebra (simultaneous equations), graphs of y=x2 + 1 etc. He loves them!

Don't waste time on doing what he's good at, introduce lots of new ideas, obviously as other posters suggest try to work on what he's not so good at.

My DS finds most stuff simple at school but enjoys them as he says there's always new things he learns. He loves learning new things.

Get your DS to play sports, get him to play chess, learn an instrument. Life isn't just about numbers, but if he has a mathematical mind he can use it for so much more! My DS loves doing all the above.

But firstly make sure your DS is happy in his new school.

I read something today that was about 'developing the mathematician not the arithmetician' and that sums it up for me.

Use words to talk through maths problems and find examples develop those skills. Being able to do mental maths is great but it's only a small part of what will be needed in later years so much better to work on the problem solving ability now before the gap widens.

Teach him at home.

this is the best book on developing mathematical talent in primary or early secondary years. It's fairly telling that chapter 1 starts with a long listing of the excuses used by schools and teachers for not developing mathematical talent. The authors' advice is to negotiate / advocate with the school, but if that process fails then bypass the school and provide appropriate instruction outside school.

beast academy is a course specifically designed for very able mathematical kids.
maths whizz is one which is more conventional and more aligned with the UK curriculum.
They're both engaging for young primary age kids, and between them they cover everything on the UK primary curriculum and much more besides - there's a lot of geometry and basic number theory in beast academy beyond the UK curriculum as it's designed to lead into competition/olympiad type maths.

If you're in/near London you could also consider: www.londonsmp.co.uk/

The thing is that the vast vast majority of people who have a mathematical career do so by using maths to problem solve.

For example - I’m an actuary and before that I did the whole Oxbridge maths thing.

I can work out 1.07^2 in my head. It is very easy. But what use is that? We also have our phones surgically attached to our hands these days - everyone else can do it on a calculator. Unless I get a job on Countdown or want to show off in the pub it is a completely useless skill.

Knowing whether to invest money in an investment that earns 7% per year or the one that earns 14.5% in two years - now that is useful. That is the decision I make for a living.

The best advice I ever got about how to help my bright - but - not- gifted DD was:
Build wide not high
I understand the frustrations with school and feeling like they don't recognise or appreciate your DS's talent - believe me I've been there. But in the end that just doesn't matter. He's got it.
Encourage him to do the stuff he enjoys and explore it further at home. Do science experiments, investigations, help him discover space and planets and learn to play an instrument. Play chess and card games. Develop his curiosity so he'll want to solve those problems.

He doesn't need to be stretched, it's far more beneficial to build a strong, solid, wide base on which to build all his future learning.

My DD is at Oxford now, studying a subject she adores with a clear career path doing the things she loves.
School will take care of the school stuff - you take care of the rest.

I'm a TA in year 2. It's great that he has these mental maths skills but it really isn't the main focus in this year group. For example, we have been working on properties of shapes, units of measure and place value (H,T,O). Reasoning is very important. They need to understand how they know things and learn to explain that. They need to show their working out to demonstrate a solid understanding of the methods they use. He may well find mental maths more useful as he progresses through key stage 2, but for now he needs to develop his problem solving skills if that is where he struggles/lacks interest. I'm sure his teacher would be more than happy to meet and discuss your concerns.

HesmyLobster that’s great advice. I love that saying!!!! Build wide not high - for some reason it’s really resonated with me.