To push or not to push...

[Frustratedhairpullmoment]

DS1 is borderline gifted in Music. He would be properly gifted if he really put his heart into it, but he doesn't.
He likes to perform and loves the praise he gets at the end of a concert. He has had distinctions for his grade exams.

However, he does very lazy practice. He doesn't actually work on anything and just rattles through the pieces, trying to play them faster and faster. Often I interrupt to remind him of the focus. Then he complains and whines, but he will fix the problem.

Anyway we are approaching secondary school time and if he doesn't get a Music scholarship he will have to go to the scary local rough school. It has less than 20% success rate for qualifications.

For this reason alone I want to push him. But tonight when I asked him to do his sight reading, he did this fake crying thing and refused. Saying he didn't know even whay the notes were. It was well within his level. He just couldnt be bothered.

I told him to just put the stuff away. I couldn't drag him through it. Then he was supposed to look at some theory. He couldn't (or wouldnt) answer a single question. He wouldn't even try.

Now, I would love to be the kind of mum who can just let her kid find their own way, but he will not have a happy time at the local school. I have looked at other options. Music scholarship is his only route.

How can I help him?

Sorry, I had missed your initial bit about the theory, and of course if he's G5, he'll need that to progress in his instruments (assuming ABRSM). Does he have half term coming up? Could you have an intense few days in it then? Alternating with something physical/outdoors in the afternoons to blow away the cobwebs?
There are intensive courses too, but I imagine they're quite £££. Is he doing the November sitting for theory, or do you have a little longer to prepare?

I do think that 1hr, 40m and 40m is rather a lot at age 9/G5, I appreciate he'll probably need G6 in one of the instruments for scholarship purposes, but perhaps he can ease back a little on that? The thing is it's quality not quantity. Do talk to his teacher (s) and ask for tips about how to make his practice more focussed- I am sure they will have met this many times before.
My DS is v random too- in summer he would do 10 minutes one day, four hours the next
Perhaps you could make his free-time as boring as possible, so that he feels the urge to play more I only wish I were joking on that front, the days DS has no screen time and the Lego is away are the days the piano has an irresistible lure.

Frustrated, don't start doubting your ds potential. He sounds really talented and def puts in enough time. I know many dc who won music scholarships to leading public schools and none of them did anything near 2 or 3 hours a day. It would have been impossible as most were boarders with a pact day. Some of them were choiristers, who had to spend 2 to 4 hours singing a day but obviously only could audition on their instruments, not on voice, as voice was to break. So many of the competition will only do 30min/day per instrument, most will likely do 2 instruments plus voice. More intensive practice in holidays.
Maybe your son would be more happy if he practices in short bursts of maybe 15min, 4 times a day, but gives it his full concentration? Can he use a practice room at school?

Frustrated he’s doing really well it is really annoying when they “ give themselves a little concert” rather than work on getting better - but I think it’s an age thing. He’s doing masses of practise for a year 5 pupil. I think ds was doing 30 minutes max at the start of year 5 ( his sister still doesn’t do that much in year 6!!) but at that point he wasn’t quite as far on. To help I would focus on the “what’s going to happen” rather than the time spent playing .

In year 5 and 6 practice was still a bit tricky with ds at times where he either got frustrated or didn’t really work at stuff ( this whole trumpet playing thing btw was all driven by him I said he just had to do some practice if he wanted to have lessons!!) - but this is the routine that he has evolved and it seems to work - and it’s lots of small chunks all of which will help you be a better player but helps to keep them focussed !!

• warm ups
• scales
• exercises/ studies - ds now picks ones which relate to bits of pieces that he’s working on ( but he’s older)
• Then he often has a little break
• Then pieces - for this I used to get him to tell me what he thought he needed to practice before he started - now he just comes to tell me anyway it gets it clear in his mind and you can’t escape the trumpet so I know that this is what he does !! I’ve also learnt ( the hard way !!) to try and step back not be in the room when he’s playing etc as it’s too intense and at the end of the day it’s my ds that’s got to own his playing and stand up and perform etc !! This is the hard bit

This takes about an hour and a half . Ds has been working like this for about 18 months . He’ll do extra work at weekends/ holidays if he needs to and has the time I’m not one for bribes if they really don’t want to do something I won’t make them ( apart from homework ) but I do understand your really difficult situation Hope that helps and good luck he’s doing really well and I bet he’s a good candidate for a music scholarship anyway !!

Oh and also ( this is his teachers favourite tip) get him to record himself playing - voice memo on the phone is fine - then they can’t escape all the bits that are going wrong !!

I have just laughed out loud at "giving himself a little concert", trumpet! I am definitely going to use that line on DS....

Trumpetboysmum thank you. I was going to ditch this thread as I seemed to be talking about the wrong stuff.

I am also not into bribes. At the start, the Music lessons were the treat. The ability to play something was a treat.

I love the idea of recording them. I will give him my phone tomorrow.

And Yes, 'Giving himself a concert' is exactly whats going on. He loves it and I suppose that's the key isn't it?

Motivation is key. We are considering 11+ and my DS is very complacent. He’s used to being up at the top of his class without any effort.

We’ve taken him to see schools we think he will like and also some we think he will not. It has helped a bit for him to see what he doesn’t want.

We are also working with one of his classmates and they did their first session together a couple of weeks ago. He realised that his friend is as good, or maybe better, than him. I think it has been good for him to see this up close as I’ve been trying to tell him that he’ll be competing against those who are almost all as able as him. The difference is that many of them will be working and that is often what makes the difference.

I’m still working on this and found the School Success podcast has some interesting ideas.

How can you get him to see the pros and cons of the different options? Can you book some workshops or sessions where he can see what he’s up against?

I sympathise. My DD played through rather than practising too. Nevertheless she now has a first class BMus from a conservatoire! Sometimes it's purely a maturity thing.

How about getting him to set a timer for specific things eg fingering, bowing etc or specific bars, jumps etc For a very short time. Ask him to do 10x reps of short tricky bits.

One a day, easy peasy appealing tunes for sightreading. Play 3 times through

Notereading apps even?

Say he must treat playing the whole piece through as pudding to be done onky after sorting the technical stuff.

Set a timer for general practice. If he feels he has played through enough but still has time left get him to memorise, play with eyes closed, do reps etc

Practice transposing. Arpeggios, playing a major tune in the minor etc,, chords, chords and more chords

Use apps which hone rhythm and co'-ordination skills.

If he is above grade5 in 3 instruments in yr5, he is not borderline gifted, he is gifted in music, I am sure. But is that what he really want to pursue? Only he can decide.
My ds has a gift in maths, but he has changed a lot as he grew. He still loves maths, but it's not his first interest anymore, even though he can do so well without putting effort in it.

Push. It works.

Really look into a bursary, you sound exactly like the sort of candidate that gets one

I think u should push him but not too much if that makes sense

Something else occurs to me OP - have you thought of having his eyes tested? Possibly a change in his vision means the problem is sight rather than sight reading.

He would be properly gifted if he really put his heart into it, but he doesn't.

Gifted isn't about effort. You are gifted, or you are not. Being gifted does not mean you are good at it though. And not being gifted doesn't mean you can't be brilliant at it.

I think sport works well as an analogy - in football you can spot a player like Messi, who is supremely gifted and works hard, or Ronaldo, who perhaps isn't as gifted in a footballing sense, but works harder than anyone. Then you have the players like Balotelli, who is gifted but doesn't put the work in, or players like Beckham was who are just 'very good' rather than gifted but put in hours and hours and hours of work.

So the very, very best are gifted and work hard and just a notch below are everyone else, who may or may not be gifted, but work to varying degrees. Of course, getting a gifted individual to appreciate their gift and work on it is not necessarily plain sailing.