High learning ability at 4 but socially struggling with personal boundaries

[EmaLu]

Hi guys my 4 year old is the very youngest in his class birthday being the 31st August so literally hours away from being in the next school year down. He is in reception class now and teachers are saying they have never taught a reception child so intelligent and they are struggling to keep up with him academically. He has been interested in words numbers shapes colours etc from very early on and at 18 months his favourite shapes were a rhombus and a trapezoid lol. His reading and maths skills are unbelievable, he has excellent conversation skills and soooo much confidence. He hit all milestones early. The teachers say they are spending hours preparing extra work for him but he completes it within minutes in class. Now my son is so loving and such a caring kind little boy but at pre school was bitten very badly and from that he started to hit out at kids who came into his personal space. My son has struggled with his social skills although of late has made much improvements I have been an anxious mess because if his outbursts of aggression towards other children. He never seeks a child out to hurt it’s only ever if they come into his personal space but not all the time. School is much more settled these days thank goodness but reading about gifted children these poor social skills seem to fit the bill but no one at school has ever mentioned that he may be gifted. It has been a struggle and we are heading in the right direction and we are thrilled to bits that he is so clever but we are concerned that the right support is not in place for him.

I think you need to take a step back and thing very hard about what you want and how to achieve that.

Moving up a year is almost certainly completely pointless - every school year is just as hard as every other school year, so if you find year X easy, you'll find year Y easy. Other than if you don't have something that others learnt in a previous year, in which case it's harder simply because you're learning twice as much. If a child is already ahead then that won't happen, and if not it would only happen for a short time.

The only benefit is you can finish school quicker (where further education being more self led can be as difficult as you make it) and against that you run into all the potential social and physical differences (always being the "baby", the smallest, slowest, least physically mature, unable to go the same films, last to learn to drive etc.)

I also think you need to talk seriously with the teachers about how the work is being differentiated, it's normally very easy to provide highly able students very open ended problems that don't require hugely more effort on the teacher than differentiating for other students. As others have suggested, writing more, writing with more expression, retelling a story etc. Explaining the maths, extending the style etc. When the class is recording the weather of a morning, some go "sun", "rain", others go "17degrees mostly sunny, with broken cirrus clouds, wind 15kph from the northeast" etc.

I would fear that teachers currently spending that long differentiating were either setting themselves up to get bored and stop, or over spoonfeeding my child with simply longer worksheets rather than nurturing self directed learning.

Thank you....there’s definitely a lot to consider, ultimately I want my son to be happy before anything else. He is doing great compared to where we were a year ago the support he and we as parents have been given by the school is great and I am hopeful it will only improve further. I appreciate all the feed back albeit a little conflicting at times but I will take it all onboard. He is an amazing little boy and I’m pretty sure he’s going to do amazing things.

First ever homework my ds had in reception was number bonds to 29(I don't know why the teacher chose 29, but it was great, tbh.), while others had number bonds to 10. It went well. He came up with all sorts systematically. Started off from 1 + 28, 2 + 27, to 1 + 30 -2, 5 x 6 -1,
100/4 + 4 etc, etc. He just went on and on until he felt bored.
It will make life of gifted children a lot more fun, if you encourage the child to learn to self entertain at early age.

Gifted children are everywhere I turn now. Loads of my friends have them, Mumsnet and Facebook is full of them. It seems you would be hard pressed to find a child who is just 'doing well' or average these days. Overrun by geniuses.

Irvine- sounds very much like my little one they had him using objects and a number line to work out one number greater or less than a given number and he can work it out himself and he would choose to take it further and use bigger numbers he always tries to go bigger or higher. We give him mathematical problems to solve he loves that. Thanks much more advice like that would be great anything that you think may help.
Donot- every parent is proud of their child and wants to shout it to the world and why not every achievement with kids is amazing I would not have believed it myself if it hadn’t came from the mouths of the professionals I prefer the term higher learning ability though rather than gifted. Its quite a phenomenon and you have lots of jaw dropping moments.

Donot, really? I have never seen any match for my ds in RL yet. MN I can understand, there are millions of people on here yet only tiny numbers claims they have gifted children.

It will make life of gifted children a lot more fun, if you encourage the child to learn to self entertain at early age.

Absolutely! for me the goal of every kid is to be a motivated self directed learner, and it should be very easy and possible to get highly able kids there sooner, particularly in areas where they have a massive interest as well as ability. So yes for the gifted mathemetician, choosing their own path through maths can be done long before they can self direct in other areas of the curriculum.

nrich.maths.org/primary-lower

Nrich is your friend, for open ended maths problems.
For literacy, he just read a lot of books.
Other subjects, I just found resources that my ds was interested at the time. For science he loved basher books, he also got really into coding, but most of the time he spent drawing(I think he is artistically talented as well, I am an Artist), playing, doing martial arts.

If you are not a mother of a gifted child you will not understand.

You talk about others making judgemental assumptions but then you assume that those of us making comments which you don't like must be making them out of pettiness because we don't have gifted children ourselves. You are mistaken, but not all parents of gifted children will agree on how to handle things.

If your child is academically gifted but socially immature, I would say that putting him up a year is probably the very worst thing you could do. I say this as someone who was offered that option for my sumner-born dd at the end of reception, and considered it very carefully. The thing is, a truly gifted child would need to go up by far more than a year in order to meet their match academically - a year or two ahead is just bright. So the academic benefits are clearly limited unless the child moves up to work alongside a much older age group. However, the child would then be very socially disadvantaged, and for a child who is already socially immature, that would be a recipe for disaster. It would be much better to ask the school to ensure that work is appropriately differentiated - it sounds like they are already doing this. Differentiation generally tends to be quite easy in reception, as most gifted children are self-directed learners and that works really well with the whole "learning through play" approach. Hence my surprise at the teachers having to set him extra work at this stage, but perhaps his lack of social maturity makes him less likely to pursue his natural curiosity? I do think it's much harder for schools to get the differentiation right in the older year groups, when the more formal learning starts, but with the right approach, it can be done.

The reason people are telling you to focus on developing your child's social skills is because, in the longer term, this is what will have a direct impact on his happiness and well-being. It is no fun being a genius if you don't have any friends! And although I hear it a lot, being socially awkward is by no means inevitable for gifted children - on the contrary, some academically gifted children are exceptionally gifted in this area too.

Anyway, you probably don't want to hear it, but it is genuinely well meant when I say that you are not doing your ds any favours if you allow his intelligence to become an excuse for his poor social skills - he needs to learn how to manage his emotional reactions and relate well to other children, and it's your job to help him develop those skills. If he doesn't learn those things, the chances are that he will be miserable and ultimately, his intelligence may be wasted.

Brokenbiscuit I appreciate what your saying but it is those insinuating that I am totally neglecting the fact that he has struggled socially when i have said this is all we have been focusing on for the last year and massive massive improvements have been made and is no longer such an issue. I’m now interested in the academic side of things as although we have always known he was very clever until recently that’s all we thought it was he was just really clever then it was brought to our attention that infact he is of higher learning ability. I have come up against so much hostility and doubters on our journey so hence the reason for calling out people who are not being that supportive or are seeming to not be. I am taking on board every comment but some are not getting my point. No one is neglecting any social issues but I simply want to understand more and explore what can be done to help my son learn at an appropriate level for his abilities especially now as we seem to have the outbursts down to a bare minimum in fact almost never. I don’t want the progress we have made to be scuppered by failings to recognise his abilities and him start to get bored by having to do work that does not challenge/satisfy him. I don’t need to be told to concentrate on his social skills this has and continues to be addressed.

And I have never used his intelligence as an excuse for poor social skills but poor social skills can be a trait in a “gifted” child.

Poor social skills can be a trait of some gifted children, however behaviour which includes aggression, or lashing out, I haven't read about yet. It's more the aspect of making and keeping friends, developing healthy relationships with kids their own age that tends to be difficult. There is a huge difference between a child who has 'outbursts of aggression' and a child who has poor social skills.

I think you will find people on this board will be more helpful if you don't insult them. Many people on here have children that are of high potential, and much older than your son so can have a lot of experience.

Fair enough, but poor social skills can be a trait in any child - personally, I think it is a myth that such issues are more common amongst gifted children, and suspect that there is only a particular association between giftedness and poor social skills because of the relatively high incidence of giftedness in people who are on the autistic spectrum - whether or not they have a diagnosis.

Anyway, if you're happy that your son's social skills are improving adequately, then that's great. I'm just struggling a bit to know exactly what your concern is, as the only actual problems that you have mentioned so far seem to be related to his social skills - you haven't really written about any academic concerns and it appears that his teachers are working hard to accommodate his needs at present. Perhaps you could say a bit more about what it is specifically that you are worried about, and then we might be able to help.

I'd like to add that I see a lot of people on these boards making giftedness into a problem. There can be challenges, of course, and sometimes huge frustrations, but it does not always have to be a problem - it can be a wonderful thing and can greatly enrich a child's life, as long as sufficient attention is given to all aspects of their development.

Exactly my point “as long as sufficient attention is given to all aspects of their development”. I gave a bit of back ground I thought it was obvious from the beginning that I was looking for the experiences advice of other mums regarding high potential children. My son has had struggles and yes it can be a wonderful gift and therefore I want my son to receive the best support possible yes his school are doing great but the more I educate myself the better for my son. Suppose it is Friday anyone want some fish to go with their chips!

Your thread title and OP suggest you are asking for advice about his social struggles, so it's not surprising people are focussing on that.

Apologies if I misunderstood. So do you have any particular concerns from an academic perspective, or are you just concerned about what might happen in the future?

FWIW, our experience of primary school was very positive. Really good differentiation and lots of extra challenge. That said, it was an excellent school.

Secondary education is proving more challenging. At dd's school, they are set for every subject but there is still a huge range of abilities in the top sets, and the differentiation is a bit hit and miss - the maths teacher was brilliant last year, for example, but this year, it's not quite as good. The school does offer some good enrichment activities for "gifted" children, but again, the quality is a bit hit and miss. Fortunately, by secondary school age, the kids are a bit more self-aware and dd is very motivated to stretch and challenge herself when the teachers don't. And we make the most of opportunities outside school to supplement what the school offers, so it's all fine really.

Ultimately, I think it's very important for parents to instil a good work ethic and a commitment to doing their best in everything - otherwise it would be too easy for an intelligent child to coast. Praise effort and persistence, not achievement. I'm proud to say that dd's excellent work ethic extends every bit as much to those areas where she is not gifted, such as PE and art, and I'm delighted to see her making such good progress in those areas. It's incredibly important that bright children learn how to strive and fail - if they don't struggle with stuff when they're young, they can develop a fear of failure which can really hold them back. (I say this from my own experience, rather than my dd's.)

Other than that, enjoy it, and don't look for problems where there aren't any!

I come from a family where pretty much everyone is of high ability (whatever you want to call it) on paper, that is everyone went to Oxford/Cambridge/or an Ivy league university - some went on to be highly recognised in their careers/others less so, but some of that was also opportunity/luck. In the long run (ie career, finding the right life partner which I think is the most important thing), social skills are very important. My father was highly gifted and on a scholarship at Eton (2 years above his age group and he was young in his year). It really didn't do him any favours in the long run (socially speaking, academically/career wise he was highly recognised). My view is that if you have a highly gifted child, don't focus too much on school. Get him into art, chess, music, sports, extend him sideways as much as possible where he may meet his peers and make friends who are of a similar mindset. Someone once told me that boys/men form friendships over things they have in common. It doesn't matter in the long run what he does in reception/year 1. By year 2 onwards, he will read whatever books he wants to read, do coding etc. work out maths for himself/do experiments at home. All my children are somewhat "bored" at school, I don't expect them to be challenged until they go to university. If they have a certain ability they will rise to the challenges they are set at school until the material becomes of a certain depth where they actually have to fully apply themselves, but I don't actually want that for them at primary school age anyway.

I have read many parents asking questions on this board about their child being of high ability and suspecting autism. It could be a myth, as Brokenbiscuit says, but this describes my son really well in many ways - he struggled to relate to his peers in the early years as his way of playing was completely different. He didn't have any creativity in his play, no role play at all, dressing up, pretending, and most of his playing was about constructing stuff, putting objects in order of size, categories, doing puzzles, was fascinated by clocks, anything with numbers, etc. His physical abilities were also poor. He didn't 'fit in' well and didn't like the way other children were playing and was very much a loner (I'm talking pre-school here but this continued until around year 2).

We did suspect that he was on the autistic spectrum because of all of these, and I don't think it's uncommon. I have certainly seen many other parents asking about this over the years on this board.

I totally agree with other posters that too much focus on academic achievement wasn't the way we wanted to go - DS is now 10 years old G&T in maths, and plays three musical instruments, loves to paint, code, bake (which includes lots of experiments...), and is very much of an outdoor boy who loves spending time in our local woods to explore. Finding ways to learn outside of school and discover things by themselves is very important. Otherwise the pressure can really get to him.

You say he's already been seen by a psychologist, OT and autism and communication specialist. Didn't the psychologist give him the WPPSI or WIAT? IQ tests are somewhat less reliable before the age of 5-6 but it would seem an oversight not to establish cognitive functioning and academic attainment in a child that shows signs of being unusually bright. A formal cognitive assessment by an ed psych experienced with gifted kids will carry more weight than an assessment from potential plus. As far as I'm aware their assessors are not generally registered psychologists. They might cope ok with a kid who is "just" gifted, but for a kid who also has behavioural issues in school, an ed psych would be better placed.
There was a thread on a related issue here.
There may be better options than grade-skipping to Y1. If he is socially immature he will struggle to make friends there, and if he has impulse control issues he will struggle to cope with the more formal learning expected there. Also he may be several years ahead academically and a 1-year increase in the level of work may not be enough, as noted here. Grade-skipping is only one of many forms of acceleration. I would suggest looking into subject acceleration / subject matter acceleration and computer instruction.
I find it very strange that the teachers are spending hours to prepare work he does in minutes. It should be quite simple - you assess how many years ahead they are, and give them material at that level, which should already exist within the school. Something doesn't add up.

OP the whole AS and gifted is a common question because gifted does often come hand in hand with other things. But clearly it isn’t always the case, even where behaviours can be similar. I sometimes get asked in my is AS because she struggles with eye contact. She has a bit of social anxiety, particularly with teachers, and I remember the deeply frustrating conversation with the SENDco who was determined to conclude that the only thing the school needed to address was my DD’s social skills. However, when people say it, as long as they aren’t using the suggestion as an excuse to dismiss other needs (like academic challenge), I don’t mind because it is one way you could interpret some of her traits. It would create one set of positives and challenges, and she happens to have a different set.

Clearly the biggest issue your DS is having in school is social. I don’t have any useful advice there. I don’t know how you would address the person space difficulty but it sounds like it is very negatively impacting on his social relationships, and so maybe play therapy or something would help. Or maybe he will grow out of it. He is so little. But I think you and others are right to conclude that full year group acceleration would not be great for him. Not least because it sounds like the school are working really hard to work with him. It doesn’t surprise me at all that the school are struggling. Having talked to a lot of parents of kids with HLP, particularly those who are the profoundly ‘gifted’ (which is rare enough that schools don’t know what to do but common enough, particularly in this day and age of information sharing, that they should). I do very much agree with Irvine, the internet and specialised forums make you realise that there are numerous kids in the same position. But given the rarity, it doesn’t mean anyone will know many. Your DS sounds in the more extreme end of bright. Although people often say that it levels out, some things can, and other things clearly won’t.

Anyway, it is an interesting thread, and on balance, lots of good suggestions. Hoping for a good summer term for your DS.

I'd get your talented child
Some music lessons in an ensemble instrument (ie not piano) thy within a short time he could join a little orchestra. Music stretches the mind, and provides social opportunities.

Hello OP, your son sounds fabulous and a, sure he will be fine with th right support.

Just want to say that even though he is deemed not autistic at the moment it might be that later down the line he is diagnosed as autistic (in th old days they would have said Aspergers....little professor syndrome lol).some very very clever kids are autistic but their social skills cause them problems. My son is autistic with mild learning difficulties and attends a special school. In his class is a kid who will sail through GCSEs but no mainstream school can manage him. Very very super bright but an absolute night,are socially.

Anyway that's not necessarily YOUR child who might just be super bright but with a need to mature socially. He's only 4 so a lot can change in a couple of years.

When I said you can help with the social side - I wasn't suggesting that you don't already talk to him. His interaction with adults probably isn't the problem.

I meant that you can engineer social situations for him - in a more contained way than school can. -Having friends back to play and helping him understand how to (or how not to) socialise with others his age. Start with 1s and 2s - move into slightly larger groups. Include girls.

(He might need more training in how to runabout with a bucket on his head and not end up in the paddling pool - if my experience of 4 year old social behaviour is typical.)

Music is great for the academic side a whole different social side.

Taking up clubs that lead to team sports would certainly help when he is older. You get accepted more as a footballer than as a straight A* student!

My DS has had two cognitive assessments both of which place him at or above 99.6 percentile, so he's clever.
At 4 he was adrift socially. He could read anything, spell anything, understood numbers into the thousands. He couldn't understand why most if the others in his class were just starting with reading and writing and tended to be a bit impatient, tell them what they were doing wrong at games, etc. As the others developed their skill acquisition the gap was less stark, in that everyone could read, everyone could write etc and whilst he has bigger numbers to manipulate it's much easier to manage that within his class. This may well happen for your DS too. My son is a very kind boy and his "telling people where they are going wrong" has morphed into a reputation for kindness and helping out others, for example in coding he does his work then the teacher has him support others who are struggling. He isn't autistic though there were times we questioned it. We would never have advanced him a year, it would have been bad for him socially.